drum118
Superstar
They are the only one in Canada that can build TTC equipment here and meet the 55% content requirement and timetable that I am aware of. Going to the US is out of the question under stupid Trump small brain.
|
|
|
TTC: Other Items (catch all)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
hawc
Senior Member
How about Europe? China?
It feels like whenever Canadians are forced to use Canadian suppliers we don't get the best results.
It feels like whenever Canadians are forced to use Canadian suppliers we don't get the best results.
Richard White
Senior Member
I agree somewhat with this.
I am all for Canadian jobs but I also want the best results and quality. If that means having Siemens produce trains in the UK so be it.
TDE
New Member
Just to clarify...
...Or will it be a full six-car set with two cabs, able to be broken down into smaller sets, with or without a cab, and run them in the shop, and put it back as a set when work is done?
2. And if it is in pairs, etc., with a cab at each end, how will evacuations be carried out if the emergency exit is off-set between each mini-set?
1. Are these still going to be in pairs/triplets, etc., because, Greenwood (I'm imagining REM pairs, even in triplets, but in red, of course..)?
...Or will it be a full six-car set with two cabs, able to be broken down into smaller sets, with or without a cab, and run them in the shop, and put it back as a set when work is done?
2. And if it is in pairs, etc., with a cab at each end, how will evacuations be carried out if the emergency exit is off-set between each mini-set?
APTA-2048
Senior Member
These will be six-car trains that can easily be broken down into sets of two. Open gangway throughout with egress at both ends.
This supplier has been mentioned being involved with the TTC:
Automated train gangway coupling system to be tested in Toronto
INNOTRANS: Hübner has unveiled its AutoCouple concept for the fully automated coupling and uncoupling of inter-car train gangways. A trial on the Toronto subway is planned for 2025. Rather than being a direct replacement for conventional coach gangways, AutoCouple aims to make it easier for...
www.railwaygazette.com
APTA-2048
Senior Member
Well that’s not exactly true. The Bombardier (and now Alstom) Bilevel has been wildly successful. As has been the ICTS/Innovia Metro.
You can look at all the previous rolling stock for Toronto and Montreal too. Some outliers in Toronto with teething problems and a bit of a dud with the H6, but none of our rolling stock has been what I would call a disaster.
Even the LFLRVs had a bad start, but Bombardier and Alstom seemed to have cranked out 60 more cars with no issue.
Last edited:
81-717
Active Member
The H6s are the ones that got a light refurb, only to be retired a short 7 years later. The H5s were rebuilt in the 1990s (saved them from getting replaced with more T1s), and 50% of the H4s were rebuilt in the very early 2000s (iirc) to keep running another decade (rush hour only).
Not even the H6? Those were always treated like disasters, everyone made it sound as if they could never even leave the yard without breaking down, even though in reality they completed plenty of trips without having to be taken out of service, and probably just had a lower MDBF.
What vehicle would be an example of a disaster?
APTA-2048
Senior Member
Something like SEPTA’s CRRC bilevels where the order was cancelled without receiving a single car.
Northern Light
Superstar
There's nothing wrong w/the vehicles on Line 6.
The slowness problems are choices by TTC, City Transportation, Mx, and the twits who approved an absurd turning radii in the Humber College tunnel.
The snow problem lies with the switches and with the consortium doing the maintenance.
That doesn't mean Alstom gets a free pass on everything, but they've built subways of various types for ages, mostly without issue.
Last edited:
81-717
Active Member
The TR is part of the Movia family (has Movia been discontinued?). These T1 replacements seem to be part of the Alstom Metropolis family, various flavors of which exist in places like Warsaw, Budapest, and REM.
I kinda wish it was the former, but that option was never on the table, unfortunately.
Not sure, but it's quite common for such sets to be coupled together (REM, Stockholm C20 & C30, both of which are also based on Movia despite being very different from each other, etc), so that configuration seems to work fine elsewhere.
officedweller
Senior Member
I just posted in the Vancouver Transit thread, a TransLink video of Alstom Mark V manufacture in Quebec.
Were the Toronto Rockets made in Quebec?
Isn't Thunder Bay the factory that had quality control issues in the past?
Were the Toronto Rockets made in Quebec?
Isn't Thunder Bay the factory that had quality control issues in the past?
drum118
Superstar
The body shells were built in Quebec once production was shipped from Mexico with the Mexico work fixed in Quebec. The cabs end came off shore as well various parts. No idea what parts were made in Canada with the finally assembly done in Thunder Bay.
I have stated since about 2005 that suppliers should be based on price that effect the taxpayer pockets and not job protections to buy seats. There are suppliers out there that can meet and better TTC requirements with a few willing to setup final assembly here while other will ship full production X here.
The only thing keeping Thunder Bay plant open is work being done for Ontario these days. Only have to look at the history of TB plant to see why it still exist. The TR2 is costing something like an extra $200 million to be built in TB.
We are not great in training trade people as well most people don't want to get their hands dirty in the first place. Job protection for life is a thing from the past and cannot meet the future needs the changing technology. I have seen companies come and go as they could not adapted to the changing technology as well pricing themselves out of the market.
Even though CRRC setup up shop in the US like a number of off shore companies, they have fail to meet all requirements so far like a few others that left the US while others have succeeded.
81-717
Active Member
I mean, that's not really a case of rolling stock being a disaster since the rolling stock was never built in the first place. The contract being cancelled could be considered a disaster of a different kind, the same kind as when the TTC cancelled the RFP for T1 replacements due to lack of funding in late 2023. I'm curious about examples of rolling stock that was actually built, but was/is so unreliable (or maybe even falling apart) that it would make the H6s seem reliable in comparison. The R179 decoupling in motion was an embarassing incident, but still a one-off, and the R179 doesn't seem to be a lemon now.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
CRRC built two pilot cars. They weren’t 100% finished, but they had enough issues that SEPTA felt they were unacceptable.
smallspy
Senior Member
The H5s in particular went through a couple of courses of rather intensive work to keep them running reliably. The one that APTA-2048 refers to in the 1990s specifically was a rather major structural rebuild, to deal with structural corrosion issues.
But you don't need an overhaul to keep an item in good shape. And that's something that the TTC has long done with its subway fleet (but not it's other fleets until recently) - a more predictive maintenance regime, with components being replaced before they fail in order to keep them in good running order.
I'm not so sure yet that I would give the Alstom cars on line 6 a free pass just yet.
Yes, they are still quite young, but some of the failures being shown in the reports that Steve Munro has been dutifully sharing with us are quite concerning. That some repeating failures have occurred consistently on certain cars on subsequent days (or within a limited number of days) makes me concerned that (1) either the components are not being built robust enough, (2) the design of the cars lends themselves to difficult maintenance processes or (3) the maintenance forces just don't understand the cars yet and aren't able to solve the root cause of the problems.
In my mind (3) is the best case scenario here because that would mean that the cars would become more reliable as they learn the eccentricities of the cars. But it certainly raises other questions about Mosaic's processes.
For all of the issues of the line, I don't think that the grade-separated curve from Finch to 27 is a problem. Sure, the speed limit on it is a bit artificially slow. But that particular spot in the line was always going to be a problem with constraints on many sides, and there was always going to be a need to shoehorn a tight curve into the intersection there.
That the trains are not able to approach it at speed, or depart it at speed, are far greater problems in my mind.
Note that the name "Metropolis" is a marketing catch-all, and really does not mean much at all in the grand scheme of things. It does not mean that the equipment will share some or any common features.
In some cases, there is absolutely no parts commonality between members of the "family". The only thing that they have in common is that Alstom has decided to name the rolling stock that.
Dan