TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[Richard White]

Why??

You will find systems in Europe where a mob of enforcers in plains cloth jump onto a vehicle and pullout the their badge around their keck and started asking for your proof of payment. The first time it happen to me, I thought we were going to be beaten or robbed. They caught a fair number of rider who hadn't paid their fare and got a 100 euro ticket as that was the going fine back in 2012.

This happens all the time in Budapest. Uniformed fare inspectors are generally not a thing there.

They also have fare inspectors at the top of escalators checking the fares of those who come off the subway. 99% of the time you don't see them until they are too late however the locals have grown accustomed to them and always have their fare media close by.

 

[Mihairokov]

You will find systems in Europe where a mob of enforcers in plains cloth jump onto a vehicle and pullout the their badge around their keck and started asking for your proof of payment.

This seems bad to me.

The first time it happen to me, I thought we were going to be beaten or robbed.

Wonder why! I don't think police should be using mob tactics to crack down on that hardened class of people who fare evade. It's such a small issue to warrant such a large reaction.

They caught a fair number of rider who hadn't paid their fare and got a 100 euro ticket as that was the going fine back in 2012.

The money it cost them to do this operation probably wasn't recovered in the handful of people they fined for fare evading.

 

[DSCToronto]

This seems bad to me.

Wonder why! I don't think police should be using mob tactics to crack down on that hardened class of people who fare evade. It's such a small issue to warrant such a large reaction.

The money it cost them to do this operation probably wasn't recovered in the handful of people they fined for fare evading.

Fare evasion is best countered (and success measured) by raising the expectation that you WILL be caught not by the number of people caught Many European system have fairly frequent fare inspections and from casual observation the rate of people caught is very low. That proves the system is working NOT that it isn't. Red light cameras, speed cameras etc work on the same basis.

 

[Northern Light]

Fare evasion is best countered (and success measured) by raising the expectation that you WILL be caught not by the number of people caught Many European system have fairly frequent fare inspections and from casual observation the rate of people caught is very low. That proves the system is working NOT that it isn't. Red light cameras, speed cameras etc work on the same basis.

Sure, and @Mihairokov can speak for himself, but i don't think he was suggesting that fare enforcement should be scant or absent.

Rather he was opposing 'mob tactics'..........specifically the use of plain clothes fare enforcement, and bullying, physical tactics.

I fully agree with him on these points.

If someone in plain clothes jumps out in front of me and puts their hands on me, I would be more than offended, I would likely assume I was being assaulted/mugged and respond accordingly.

Non-starter. Law enforcement should always be visible, easily identifiable and should not use unreasonable tactics.

Plain clothes people as 'spotters' is fine, but enforcement must be carried out by uniformed personnel.

****

Also, we do need proportionality when it comes to cost/benefit analysis. We already had 100 people in the Fare Enforcement unit, who spent much of the last 2 years issuing next to no cautions or tickets.

I'm not sure why we need more when we barely use the staff we have.

****

I will report here, to my amusement, I saw fare enforcement, visible and actually enforcing at Main Station yesterday.

Further, they actually had people on the bus platform tagging people walking in via the bus driveway. Yay!

 

[W. K. Lis]

Could the TTC show what the Fare Inspector badge looks like, to differentiate between an inspector and a mugger?

 

[smallspy]

You also need Bus Operators to enforce the rules.

You won't believe how many times I see operators willfully ignore people with insufficient funds on their card or on them.

Back when my father was an operator it wasn't uncommon to have an operator park their bus and call control over a fare dispute.

Now they don't do that. Enabling fare evasion won't solve anything.

Operators have been explicitly told to not enforce fares. This is to try and reduce assaults on employees.

Dan

 

[Mind_the_gap]

^ Yeah, pretty much my experience, in Stockholm they wait at the top of escalators too.

In Helsinki, plainclothes waiting for the doors to close on a tram.

The mob aspect is meant to cover all entry/exit points.

It works...

 

[nfitz]

Operators have been explicitly told to not enforce fares. This is to try and reduce assaults on employees.

How much has assaults on employees reduced since they introduced this policy?

And how much lower is it than at agencies that still enforce fares.

 

[Mind_the_gap]

Would that really be that hard? Couldn't you just put a screen at the top of the stairs, just using the same tech as on the platform itself?

Example from Ottawa, this screen is visible from the stairs and entrance on the line 2 level. I kind of wish they had it at the top of the stairs too, but at least when I get to the bottom I know if I should sprint over to the train.

I know people think dot matrix screens are meh, but you can't beat their visibility at a distance. But I'd expect in this case you could just add the same screen that displays ads and the next train time you see on every subway platform

I've been wondering why the TTC has screens at entrances that don't show next train arrivals - Stockholm has been doing this for the last twenty (~20) years:

Source

Source

And to @drum118 's credit, countdown clocks for connections should be displayed on the overhead LCD-screens on TRs (as well as the Ottawa Citadis cars).

This would help mitigate that behaviour I spoke about.

 

[chrisw]

@Mind_the_gap there was some recent discussions on countdown timing which is based on the signalling and doesn't have great resolution. Sometimes it just defaults to the every x minutes.

 

[chrisw]

I noticed some new garbage and recycling signs. It uses some clear icons depicting some items instead of a symbol with a mix of small items. Interesting to note beverage containers highlighted for the garbage.

 

[bearcat]

I noticed some new garbage and recycling signs. It uses some clear icons depicting some items instead of a symbol with a mix of small items. Interesting to note beverage containers highlighted for the garbage.

View attachment 637055

Not that the labels matter to many people

 

[T3G]

Question: is there anyone who has used the 508 and observed whether, west of Roncesvalles, the EB destination signs denote it as a 508 instead of a 504 to Broadview? I would like to get a photo of a car with 508 Broadview station signage, but when I last tried to do this in December, by waiting at King and York for the afternoon pullouts, they were signed as 504s (I presume to show that everything is going east to Broadview, but it's a strange one, since no buses on shared corridors do anything that remotely resembles this). I am wondering whether the morning trips might be more accurately signed - at least west of Roncesvalles.

 

[DSCToronto]

Dan: I am certainly not complaining about the TTC putting up stickers for the new lines - which will probably be in operation sometime later in 2025 - BUT I certainly AM complaining about their inability to put stickers on the stops for lines that are running NOW.

There are 501 stickers on all (?) stops on Wellington and York - where the 501 has not been seen since early November - and NO 503 stickers though the 503 returned to its regular route there in early November. (There ARE stickers for the 503 on King west of York (where it no longer runs).

Having routes identified on stop poles is a very good idea that most transit systems seem able to cope with, the TTC with its silo mentality seems incapable of coordinating route (or route number) changes with sending someone out to adjust the stop signage. This is hardly a highly skilled job or one requiring line closures so should be easy to do. It is, sadly, symptomatic of the TTC that it is simply not done for months.

I noticed yesterday that many (all?) of the TTC stops on Wellington that had 501 signage now have cardboard "Temporary STOP" signage saying 503 and the 501 is hidden. I guess my complaints reached someone - though why not do the job properly and apply 503 stickers and remove the 501 ones.

If replacing / updating route numbers on stops is such a 'business', maybe they need to rethink how they display route numbers - it should be an easy and fast thing to do and they should have supplies of stickers 'ready to go'. One sort of fears that they order the exact number they need when a route changes and that they are hand-made for them. Where are Deco Labels & Tabs when you need them??

 

[Undead]

Not that the labels matter to many people

Doesn't matter because the overwhelming majority of plastic is actually not recycled, even when you put it in the correct bin.