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TTC: Other Items (catch all)

Platform edge doors aren't going to prevent the situation at St. George, which was a pair of "urban explorers" who thought it might be fun to check out Lower Bay in the middle of the day.

Dan
Every way I can think of to access Lower Bay outside of going through what I always assumed were locked doors on the Upper Bay platform involve running through the tunnels. Platform edge doors should bar entry to the tunnels, provided they are full height.

Is there some other way in or are you assuming half height PEDs?
 
Platform edge doors aren't going to prevent the situation at St. George, which was a pair of "urban explorers" who thought it might be fun to check out Lower Bay in the middle of the day.

Dan

Well, that would surely depend on how they accessed Lower Bay; but certainly there are always circumstances that any one solution will not address; but PEDs would, in general:

- significantly reduce/eliminate suicide by subway
- reduce trespassing on the tracks
- reduce litter/debris on the tracks and associated fires.
 
Every way I can think of to access Lower Bay outside of going through what I always assumed were locked doors on the Upper Bay platform involve running through the tunnels. Platform edge doors should bar entry to the tunnels, provided they are full height.

Is there some other way in or are you assuming half height PEDs?

Well, that would surely depend on how they accessed Lower Bay; but certainly there are always circumstances that any one solution will not address; but PEDs would, in general:

- significantly reduce/eliminate suicide by subway
- reduce trespassing on the tracks
- reduce litter/debris on the tracks and associated fires.
Yes, it would help prevent those situations, and yes, it would help prevent all but the most intrepid of explorers from trying to access track level.

And in fairness, we don't know just how intrepid these two were.

But the reality is that there are loads of ways into there without requiring slipping past any potential Platform Edge Doors. And there are many ways - some well known, others not-so-well - to access track level from places that aren't stations.

Dan
 
Take the TTC to cheer on the Leafs!

May 2, 2023

The TTC is helping Leafs fans safely get around to cheer on the home team in the second round of the Stanley Cup playoffs tonight.

The TTC is adding service to key routes to ensure everyone can get to and from the game and Maple Leaf Square as efficiently as possible.

- Five additional subway trains will be available on Line 1 when the game ends.

- Extra TTC staff will be stationed at Union Station and other locations throughout the downtown core to help direct customers, answer questions and manage crowds.

- For those preferring to take a bus, the 72B Pape and 121 Esplanade-River are reliable alternatives to and from Scotiabank Arena and the surrounding area.

The TTC anticipates many Leafs fans to be cheering on the team tonight. Customers are reminded that some streets may be closed and TTC routes may be required to divert.

While service on the portion of Line 2 between Woodbine and Kennedy stations will end at 11 p.m. tonight for track work, extra shuttle buses will be available to ensure everyone can get home safely.

Customers are encouraged to follow @TTCnotices on Twitter for the most up-to-date TTC service information.

The TTC is proud to connect the city during this exciting time and wishes all Toronto Leafs fans a fun and safe evening.

Go Leafs Go!
 
The court system is massively congested. This was true even before the pandemic and is now even worse.

I'm not as familiar with TTC, but with the CBSA, most people who smuggle low quantities of drugs are let go because crown attorneys deem that it's not worth pursuing given the backlog. It sometimes takes over a year from arrest to trial (at which time, many minor charges get dropped because witnesses no longer want to show up or forget what happened). There are a lot of police officers to arrest people, but not enough judges to hold trials and sentence people. Police officers feel demotivated because they know that the people they catch are just going to end back up on the streets. Adding more police/security is popular with the public, but the real bottleneck is in the court system.

Good. They should be demotivated. Chasing people over drugs is a ludicrous waste of time and money, since drugs, in and of themselves, are not a criminal problem..
 
Think it's time for a cleanup of the TTC route numbering system and wayfinding. In Philadelphia's SEPTA, their trolleys (streetcars) and light rail and subway are now called METRO.

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Good. They should be demotivated. Chasing people over drugs is a ludicrous waste of time and money, since drugs, in and of themselves, are not a criminal problem..
Sure, if you discount the lives lost to the drug making and smuggling enterprise. Demand fuels death, especially among those who are already worst off.
 
Good. They should be demotivated. Chasing people over drugs is a ludicrous waste of time and money, since drugs, in and of themselves, are not a criminal problem..
I was using drugs as a proxy for minor offences on the TTC. Minor offences scarcely make it to trial. Public urination and people injecting themselves on TTC vehicles aren't necessarily criminal code offences either (unless they're charged as mischief, a can of worms I really don't want to open).

I don't know if you listen to the TTC radio scanner, but trespassers at track level are usually just let go nowadays. Unless someone is actively threatening public safety, as an officer, it's better not to intervene in minor offences.

Anyways, let's do a thought experiment. From the following list of offences, could prioritize from first to last which case should be heard by the courts:
  • A man lights a woman on fire while on a TTC bus, the woman ends up dying in hospital a couple weeks later.
  • Two teenagers doing lines of coke on a TTC streetcar.
  • A homeless person urinating next to a trash can.
  • A college student jumps over a fare-gate.
  • A maid walks into a fare-paid area via a bus platform without paying their fare.
  • An artist does acid at the end of a subway platform and decides to go on an adventure at track level.
  • A teenager subway surfs on top of a subway car.
  • An unkempt person openly drinks alcohol and yells loudly while on the TTC.
  • A food delivery cyclist damages a fare gate while entering with their bike.
If you're reading this, I'd be mildly surprised if the drug-related offences found their way to the bottom of your list.
 
Sure, if you discount the lives lost to the drug making and smuggling enterprise. Demand fuels death, especially among those who are already worst off.

Drug making and smuggling results in death primarily due to the illegal nature of it. There's a reason why organized crime is against legalization. Legalize it, and most of that disappears. It will likely move on to something else, but, that's a problem for another day.

And if we're worried about death, let's make smoking and drinking alcohol illegal. I wonder if there's any historical precedence to how that worked out.
 
I was using drugs as a proxy for minor offences on the TTC. Minor offences scarcely make it to trial. Public urination and people injecting themselves on TTC vehicles aren't necessarily criminal code offences either (unless they're charged as mischief, a can of worms I really don't want to open).

I don't know if you listen to the TTC radio scanner, but trespassers at track level are usually just let go nowadays. Unless someone is actively threatening public safety, as an officer, it's better not to intervene in minor offences.

Anyways, let's do a thought experiment. From the following list of offences, could prioritize from first to last which case should be heard by the courts:
  • A man lights a woman on fire while on a TTC bus, the woman ends up dying in hospital a couple weeks later.
  • Two teenagers doing lines of coke on a TTC streetcar.
  • A homeless person urinating next to a trash can.
  • A college student jumps over a fare-gate.
  • A maid walks into a fare-paid area via a bus platform without paying their fare.
  • An artist does acid at the end of a subway platform and decides to go on an adventure at track level.
  • A teenager subway surfs on top of a subway car.
  • An unkempt person openly drinks alcohol and yells loudly while on the TTC.
  • A food delivery cyclist damages a fare gate while entering with their bike.
If you're reading this, I'd be mildly surprised if the drug-related offences found their way to the bottom of your list.

Only one in this list that is actually important:
  • A man lights a woman on fire while on a TTC bus, the woman ends up dying in hospital a couple weeks later.

These should be looked at if there's time, but, could be handled in installing platform doors instead.
  • An artist does acid at the end of a subway platform and decides to go on an adventure at track level.
  • A teenager subway surfs on top of a subway car.

We should not waste our time with:
  • Two teenagers doing lines of coke on a TTC streetcar.
  • A homeless person urinating next to a trash can.
  • A college student jumps over a fare-gate.
  • A maid walks into a fare-paid area via a bus platform without paying their fare.
  • An unkempt person openly drinks alcohol and yells loudly while on the TTC.
  • A food delivery cyclist damages a fare gate while entering with their bike.
 
Sure, if you discount the lives lost to the drug making and smuggling enterprise. Demand fuels death, especially among those who are already worst off.

@goreckm above is on-point.

The harms you describe originate almost entirely from the substance having no legal avenue for production or distribution. And the example given above of the alcohol prohibition era, is one which the harms you described were attributed to illegal stills and smuggling and turf wars, as well as adulteration or misreporting of strength to end users.

That is not necessarily an argument for fully legalizing every single substance.

But it is an argument for:

a) Legalization by default absent evidence showing that there is no real opportunity for mitigation/harm-reduction via legalization and that the harm of legalization is greater than the harm of criminalization.

b) Even where a substance is not legal for production or distribution, it makes little sense to criminalize an addict, except where that addiction poses a material threat to others, as evidenced by behavior.
 
I was using drugs as a proxy for minor offences on the TTC. Minor offences scarcely make it to trial. Public urination and people injecting themselves on TTC vehicles aren't necessarily criminal code offences either (unless they're charged as mischief, a can of worms I really don't want to open).

I don't know if you listen to the TTC radio scanner, but trespassers at track level are usually just let go nowadays. Unless someone is actively threatening public safety, as an officer, it's better not to intervene in minor offences.

Anyways, let's do a thought experiment. From the following list of offences, could prioritize from first to last which case should be heard by the courts:
  • A man lights a woman on fire while on a TTC bus, the woman ends up dying in hospital a couple weeks later.
  • Two teenagers doing lines of coke on a TTC streetcar.
  • A homeless person urinating next to a trash can.
  • A college student jumps over a fare-gate.
  • A maid walks into a fare-paid area via a bus platform without paying their fare.
  • An artist does acid at the end of a subway platform and decides to go on an adventure at track level.
  • A teenager subway surfs on top of a subway car.
  • An unkempt person openly drinks alcohol and yells loudly while on the TTC.
  • A food delivery cyclist damages a fare gate while entering with their bike.
If you're reading this, I'd be mildly surprised if the drug-related offences found their way to the bottom of your list.

Only one in this list that is actually important:
  • A man lights a woman on fire while on a TTC bus, the woman ends up dying in hospital a couple weeks later.

These should be looked at if there's time, but, could be handled in installing platform doors instead.
  • An artist does acid at the end of a subway platform and decides to go on an adventure at track level.
  • A teenager subway surfs on top of a subway car.

We should not waste our time with:
  • Two teenagers doing lines of coke on a TTC streetcar.
  • A homeless person urinating next to a trash can.
  • A college student jumps over a fare-gate.
  • A maid walks into a fare-paid area via a bus platform without paying their fare.
  • An unkempt person openly drinks alcohol and yells loudly while on the TTC.
  • A food delivery cyclist damages a fare gate while entering with their bike.

On this one, I feel the need to split the difference.

I agree, only the top item should ever really require time before a court.

However, I would disagree with the implication that these items should be met with indifference or inaction. They aren't acceptable behaviors and do merit some form of intervention/sanction.

  • Two teenagers doing lines of coke on a TTC streetcar.
Sanction: removal from public transit, must produce ID, written warning, repeat behavior, transit ban, violation of ban, charge with criminal trespass.
  • A homeless person urinating next to a trash can.
Sanction: Welfare check, ID production if possible, education on the location of washrooms, referral to mental health/support services, if appropriate; repeat behavior, compulsory system removal, 72-hour psych-hold, with possible compulsory treatment, subject to legal due process.
  • A college student jumps over a fare-gate.
Sanction: First offense, produce ID, warning; repeat offense, ticket, if ticket not paid within 30 days, transit ban, on system while under ban, criminal trespass charge.
  • A maid walks into a fare-paid area via a bus platform without paying their fare.
Sanction: First offense, produce ID, warning; repeat offense, ticket, if ticket not paid within 30 days, transit ban, on system while under ban, criminal trespass charge.
  • An unkempt person openly drinks alcohol and yells loudly while on the TTC.
Sanction: compulsory involvement of mental health and supportive housing staff, removal from system while disruptive, possible psychiatric hold/'drunk tank' ; no charges if cooperative.
  • A food delivery cyclist damages a fare gate while entering with their bike.
Sanction: Depends on determination of wilful fault. If accident, let it go. But take info. Make sure person educated on how to enter system with a bike w/o damaging bike or fare gate. Repeat problem, legal assessment for damage repair. Non-payment, transit ban enforced by criminal trespass charge.
 
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