TTC: McNicoll Bus Garage (Approved)

[TransitBart]

What is so interesting about this need for new garages is the fact that the Eglinton and Finch LRTs will significantly reduce the TTC's need for buses - they will eliminate some of the TTC's busiest bus routes. The fact that they still need new storage is a sign of the strong demand for bus service in the city.

Thoughts on location? The preponderance of garages seems to be in the east at the moment.

 

[JSF-1]

Maybe the Portlands? Or somewhere in the vicinity. Those bus routes in the Downtown Core travel some insane distances just to enter/exit service. The 6 Bay for example comes all the way from Mount Dennis. Maybe Hillcrest can be retrofitted into a Bus Garage & Maintenance Centre. Once all the CLRV/ALRV's are gone its going to get pretty empty there.

 

[Neutrino]

iirc there's major mixed use redevelopment planned for the Portlands. Not sure how well that meshes with a large TTC garage.

 

[JSF-1]

iirc there's major mixed use redevelopment planned for the Portlands. Not sure how well that meshes with a large TTC garage.

Thats true. I do believe though the TTC needs a garage closer to the core for its downtown based routes because all of those buses are dead heading ridiculous distances. This could open up space in Birchmount and Queensway Garage's since a lot of the Downtown routes (or those close to it) come from there (as well as Mount Dennis and Wilson).

 

[innsertnamehere]

There is still space in the portlands for industrial uses - on the further east part of the lands. Only the western portion of the Portlands is getting mixed use development. Lots of space in the Eastern avenue employment lands as well.

 

[Steve X]

My guess is either Southern Etobicoke or Portlands. The report also says they'll store Wheel-Trans buses at Queensway further reducing the number of buses dispatched from the area. A new garage could work in that area too.

 

[TransitBart]

Thats true. I do believe though the TTC needs a garage closer to the core for its downtown based routes because all of those buses are dead heading ridiculous distances. This could open up space in Birchmount and Queensway Garage's since a lot of the Downtown routes (or those close to it) come from there (as well as Mount Dennis and Wilson).

This is one reason I asked. The downtown/core bus routes deadhead a darn long way in some cases.

 

[dowlingm]

iirc there's major mixed use redevelopment planned for the Portlands. Not sure how well that meshes with a large TTC garage.

Given the electrical infrastructure in the area it might be a great place to stick an *electric* bus garage in the zones where industrial isn't intended to be squeezed out by whining from the new residents in nearby condos.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

What is so interesting about this need for new garages is the fact that the Eglinton and Finch LRTs will significantly reduce the TTC's need for buses - they will eliminate some of the TTC's busiest bus routes. The fact that they still need new storage is a sign of the strong demand for bus service in the city.

You can see the TTC bus fleet plan here. The 2021 introduction of the LRT lines will reduce the number of buses required in 2021, but within a year or two, service improvements will require a bus fleet as big as it was before the introduction of the LRT lines.

 

[dowlingm]

yes, after what is essentially 15 years of planning for a friggen industrial warehouse.

you can't see the diesel tanks from there (or hopefully the provision for electrical charging)

 

[Steve X]

You can see the TTC bus fleet plan here. The 2021 introduction of the LRT lines will reduce the number of buses required in 2021, but within a year or two, service improvements will require a bus fleet as big as it was before the introduction of the LRT lines.
View attachment 149475

That's outdated, you see the graph at the end of this report to be discussed tomorrow at the board meeting: http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com..._TTC_Bus_Storage_and_Maintenance_Facility.pdf

This would include the approved express and other potential service updated from last time. Who knows why the numbers don't align from last time.

 

[innsertnamehere]

They need 35 acres for it? That's massive. McNicoll is doing 250 on about 20.

 

[smallspy]

They need 35 acres for it? That's massive. McNicoll is doing 250 on about 20.

This new garage will store and maintain 250 40-foot (equivalent) buses and 100 Wheel-Trans buses. As they've never built such a combined facility, they are playing it safe in terms of the amount of area they think that they may need for it.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[dowlingm]

They need 35 acres for it? That's massive. McNicoll is doing 250 on about 20.

In addition to what Dan said, they are also looking for flexibility in things like vehicle charging given the move to e-buses and the identified need for on-site power infrastructure.

I note that the assumption is that 1810 Markham Road closes when McNicoll opens, which means a net +210 spaces open up, not +250. A cynic might wonder if TTC have any intention of releasing 1810 if there is no planning or budget constraint forcing them to, and especially given the delays in getting McNicoll construction going. If TTC did have those spaces on line, the alarming red parts of 2023 and 2024 service years, and most if not all of 2025, would disappear...

 

[smallspy]

I note that the assumption is that 1810 Markham Road closes when McNicoll opens, which means a net +210 spaces open up, not +250. A cynic might wonder if TTC have any intention of releasing 1810 if there is no planning or budget constraint forcing them to, and especially given the delays in getting McNicoll construction going. If TTC did have those spaces on line, the alarming red parts of 2023 and 2024 service years, and most if not all of 2025, would disappear...

I think that the reduction in 40 units stems from the future allocation of a certain number of Wheel-Trans units to Queensway - and the reduction in capacity of 40 foot buses being able to be stored there.

As far as I know, 1810 Markham Rd is to be a permanent addition to Malvern Division, and that there are no plans to divest the property.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.