cplchanb
Senior Member
well theoretically if theres a crash in front of a streetcar with the panto they can now back out of it reverse to the nearest switch to bypass. that kind of counts as passenger convenience i would think
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well theoretically if theres a crash in front of a streetcar with the panto they can now back out of it reverse to the nearest switch to bypass. that kind of counts as passenger convenience i would think
Megaton327
Senior Member
Hmm, that's an interesting point. Does anybody know if the TTC would allow operators to reverse a Flexity using the panto without having to wait 3 hours for 50 supervisors to come to the scene, as I've witnessed in the past using a trolley pole? Between the pantograph and the controls located by the rear window, it seems that operators should be fine reversing, especially on a ROW like on 509/510/512; mind you, the fact that it seems logical to let them reverse doesn't necessarily mean the huge TTC bureaucracy will actually allow it. I guess we'll find out for sure sooner or later.
Richard White
Senior Member
For liability reasons I cannot see them allowing them to reverse on their own. On a ROW I do not see it being a big deal but over a switch or through an intersection yes. If the operator does not see what the switch is doing they cannot safely traverse it in reverse.
All it takes is for the switch to do something funky or a driver to be stupid and you have criminal negligence if someone gets killed. Even still.. they would need someone to guard the area behind the streetcar so stupid people do not walk past it and get run over while they reverse. Again... if someone gets run over by a reversing streetcar the TTC will be sued for allowing it without proper safeguards in place.
Some situations as stupid as it may seem REQUIRE additional personnel to complete the task safely.
dowlingm
Senior Member
There are recessed rear controls on a Flexity to effect turn backs, right?
4445 news:
https://twitter.com/bombardierrail/status/907326756885028865
4445 news:
https://twitter.com/bombardierrail/status/907326756885028865
Richard White
Senior Member
I know the LRVs are designed with front and rear controls but I am unsure if the streetcars have such controls. It would make sense but even if they did given the length and blind spots you would need someone at the end to guard the movements of the car for legal reasons.
drum118
Superstar
Every CLRV that I have seen backing up has always someone at the rear telling the driver what to do. Seen someone or a vehicle going ahead of the car as it backup as well a few times.
4443 is currently up on St Clair doing testing. 5 LRV's on St Clair in service.
To get the 4 cars that are schedule for this month, BBD needs to be ship a car every 4 days starting tomorrow or ship 2 cars on the 15th and 25th.
4443 is currently up on St Clair doing testing. 5 LRV's on St Clair in service.
To get the 4 cars that are schedule for this month, BBD needs to be ship a car every 4 days starting tomorrow or ship 2 cars on the 15th and 25th.
Megaton327
Senior Member
I just hunted down these two videos I remembered showing the Flexity Outlook streetcars driving in reverse, with operators using the rear controls:
1st video, using pantograph, high speed testing on Queen - reverse operation from start of video 0:00-0:40, 2:15-2:38, and 2:54-3:00:
2nd video, using trolley pole, CNE testing - reverse operation from 0:40-1:00:
Right behind the rearmost seats, there's a small locked hatch with a few basic operator controls in it. Not everything, notably none of the many cameras/monitors, but it has the throttle/brakes and I would presume also the gong/horn buttons.
The CLRVs need a person behind them, in addition to some other reasons, because the driver is at the front and can't see where they're going in reverse. On the LFLRV, the driver is right there at the back, looking out backwards in the direction they're going, and they're right by the glass--pretty much as close as they are in the driver's cab. The only big visibility difference is the lack of the cameras/monitors but those are mostly for passengers getting on/off at the doors, and obviously passengers would be kicked off before reversing. So there's no more worry about people getting run over or collisions occurring, at least on a ROW, than there is when driving forwards, unlike a CLRV which needs a guide walking behind it.
As for switches, similarly, the operator can see just as well as they can in the front. The TTC can even put in a rule that when reversing, at ANY intersection with switches the op must actually get out of the vehicle and check that the switches are set correctly, then proceed slowly and stop before each switch. Still, IMO, even by corporate liability standards, especially with no passengers aboard and being on a ROW, this ought to be safe enough without someone walking behind.
In that 1st video, they go pretty darn fast in reverse. Really, those rear controls and the pantograph make it much more feasible. Well, we'll see what the policy is now.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
They do they are under a cover that they can unlock with the key for the driver's door in the area that says don't put anything on this space.
Richard White
Senior Member
That makes sense. Even CLRV and ALRVs had basic controls at the front. They were only toggle switches but that is that.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
I think it's a little more than basic control but I've never seen it open in person. I did see somewhere one time when they had to back one up on 509 when it split the switch going north onto Spadina becuse of the switch beeing full of dirt from the constrtion.
Richard White
Senior Member
I have seen the CLRV/ALRV panel open during a mechanical malfunction with one of the cars. Something to do with the doors I believe it was.
Anyway.. under a metal panel at the front dash next to the driver there are toggle switches. I believe they are various overrides and may be related the the couplers that were initially on the cars.
They are not designed to operate the car but help fix minor technical issues.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
Since the flexes are controlled with the same style of stick as the Toronto Rocket and T1 trains they can just have it under the cover at the back as part of a secondary set of controls for manoeuvring backwards when necessary.
smallspy
Senior Member
They do that already today. They haven't needed pantographs to do it in the previous 100+ years of operation.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
smallspy
Senior Member
There is an auxilliary control desk at the back end of the car, yes. The can can be operated in reverse from the regular cab as well.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Red October
Senior Member
Speaking of pantographs... Spotted this on the 509 Harbourfront this morning:
Photo by me.
Of note, the next one (and one going the other way) was using the plain old trolley pole.
Photo by me.
Of note, the next one (and one going the other way) was using the plain old trolley pole.