TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Guessing the driver has access to the external PA? Is there an external mic that allows the driver to hear your responses?

there's a small window that the driver can open from inside the cab, I was yelling so he could here me. The PA for them broadest both inside and outside as I've herd a few drivers instructing poel to use the red button to open the doors at stops

 

[Tuscani01]

there's a small window that the driver can open from inside the cab, I was yelling so he could here me. The PA for them broadest both inside and outside as I've herd a few drivers instructing poel to use the red button to open the doors at stops

Cool! Thanks!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

In my 20+ years of CPG sales/marketing mgmt., one of the cardinal rules is that you treat your customers differently according to their profitability and switching cost (i.e. ability to change suppliers). Bombardier knows Toronto can't switch suppliers for the Flexity cars AND more importantly future vehicle requirements (Queen's Park will always favour Thunder Bay vs. offshore). Meanwhile, Bombardier can ensure high margins by producing the expensive bits in Mexico.

So, Bombardier has a captive yet profitable customer. If you had a limited capacity to meet KPIs and commitments, you'd certainly direct those resources to other customers; i.e. profitable customers that have low switch costs or supply options.

If this is remotely true, I hope we don't buy a single thing from Bombardier in the future.

In my 20+ years of CPG sales/marketing mgmt., one of the cardinal rules is that you treat your customers differently according to their profitability and switching cost (i.e. ability to change suppliers). Bombardier knows Toronto can't switch suppliers for the Flexity cars AND more importantly future vehicle requirements (Queen's Park will always favour Thunder Bay vs. offshore). Meanwhile, Bombardier can ensure high margins by producing the expensive bits in Mexico.

So, Bombardier has a captive yet profitable customer. If you had a limited capacity to meet KPIs and commitments, you'd certainly direct those resources to other customers; i.e. profitable customers that have low switch costs or supply options.

Sigh. I hope we sue them into the ground. Erase any profits they made from this order.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Cool! Thanks!

you're welcome

 

[georgevicbell]

Someone posted on CPTDB: "I heard that they're halting production for 8 weeks so that they can stock up on parts."

I think the question no longer is when will the vehicles arrive...it's when will they be worked on...

Maybe they've given up, and just forgot to tell us...

What's happening with that extra 60 vehicles we needed...we could have a contract signed with some other company by now....we knew in the summer this was going to be a problem...they might have even started delivering before BBD makes it to 60 vehicles...

 

[drum118]

I think the question no longer is when will the vehicles arrive...it's when will they be worked on...

Maybe they've given up, and just forgot to tell us...

What's happening with that extra 60 vehicles we needed...we could have a contract signed with some other company by now....we knew in the summer this was going to be a problem...they might have even started delivering before BBD makes it to 60 vehicles...

TTC is too Dumb not to go out for a new supplier for those 60 plus cars to the point they could all be here before TB completes the current order. More like don't have the balls to do so and shove it in the face of BBD as well seeing how overprice the current order is. Then with our dollar in the tank, it maybe higher.

The order was supposed to be issue once the first 60 cars were here and that maybe in December this year as well about 18 months late.

Still waiting to see when they stop putting poles on the car considering the first 60 were to have then. That was the issue of the overhead not to be finish on King, Queen and Spadina until late 2015 or early 2016.

 

[dowlingm]

The costs of cancelled transit city projects aren't just about vehicles. The province claimed they had done design work which was now thrown away. If the city's new plan doesn't include using Conlins LRV yard with Sheppard East disappearing further into the future, the province is going to want paying for that too.

 

[drum118]

EU approves sale of Bombardier Transportation stake

 

[nfitz]

The costs of cancelled transit city projects aren't just about vehicles.

None of the cost for the cancelled projects (primarily the Scarborough RT conversion and extension) are about cars. Recall that 48 of the 182 Metrolinx LRVs were for the SRT. However the province decided not to reduce the LRV order as they could use the cars elsewhere (we assumed Mississauga or Hamilton at the time, but now there's the Crosstown East and West as well) ... all in all, I'd expect that 182 order to increase).

 

[jcam]

TTC is too Dumb not to go out for a new supplier for those 60 plus cars to the point they could all be here before TB completes the current order. More like don't have the balls to do so and shove it in the face of BBD as well seeing how overprice the current order is. Then with our dollar in the tank, it maybe higher.

The order was supposed to be issue once the first 60 cars were here and that maybe in December this year as well about 18 months late.

Still waiting to see when they stop putting poles on the car considering the first 60 were to have then. That was the issue of the overhead not to be finish on King, Queen and Spadina until late 2015 or early 2016.

The TTC isn't dumb, their hands are tied. Any orders have to have a high % Canadian content, unless the Ontario government gives a waiver (not gonna happen). That means any international vendor needs to BUILD a plant here and set up a supply chain with local vendors. A company will BAKE that plant cost into the contract, so you'll be paying an exorbitant price for it all. Add to that the fact that Bombardier already has Metrolinx' contract, and that other LRT lines in the country are going P3 (consortium chooses vendor), and there's LESS of a reason for another company to build a plant here.

We're stuck with Bombardier, plain and simple.

 

[Duck]

Sigh. I hope we sue them into the ground. Erase any profits they made from this order.

That's a really negative, hurtful and very Un-Canadian attitude. It hurts to see so many people here bashing what I consider to be one of the finest companies and success stories in Canada.

 

[smallspy]

TTC is too Dumb not to go out for a new supplier for those 60 plus cars to the point they could all be here before TB completes the current order. More like don't have the balls to do so and shove it in the face of BBD as well seeing how overprice the current order is. Then with our dollar in the tank, it maybe higher.

That's an absolutely ridiculous statement from someone who claims to know the industry as well as you claim you do.

What do you think a 60 car order would cost? Do you not think that whomever would fill this imaginary order of yours would not have to recoup the millions and millions and millions of dollars of engineering that would be necessary to run on Toronto's track? The Flexities are costing us about $5mil per car, and that's on a 204 car order. A 60 car order would cost a hell of a lot more per vehicle once that company adds in the engineering costs to their construction cost.

The order was supposed to be issue once the first 60 cars were here and that maybe in December this year as well about 18 months late.

There are no more orders. The term you're looking for is option, and it is still able to be taken.

Still waiting to see when they stop putting poles on the car considering the first 60 were to have then. That was the issue of the overhead not to be finish on King, Queen and Spadina until late 2015 or early 2016.

Why does it matter? A pole costs $125 or so, and the retriever is about the same amount. It's a fraction of the cost of a $3000 pantograph. The savings from removing them is so negligible when compared to the rest of the vehicle that it's laughable to continue to point it out. You might as well pine for the loss of the penny while you're at it.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[nfitz]

It hurts to see so many people here bashing what I consider to be one of the finest companies and success stories in Canada.

Laying it on a bit thick aren't you?

 

[Duck]

No, that's the haters that are doing a good job of that. Such a bunch of whiny, entitled brats. "the world owes me everything"

 

[DSC]

No, that's the haters that are doing a good job of that. Such a bunch of whiny, entitled brats. "the world owes me everything"

Seems a pretty good description of Bombardier to me!