TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[MetroMan]

I have trouble believing that TTC doesn't need every dollar of the SOGR cash to catch up on deferred critical maintenance in both surface and subway networks, stations, etc. More streetcars is an expansion and should be funded the same way expansion in the bus fleet was.

Even if 100% of the available budget goes to state of good repair, it still won't be enough. But I've heard Tory talking about the Waterfront East LRT when discussing this budget. Buying streetcars is a small portion of the overall budget and absolutely needed to keep up with transit demand and keep the system running more or less smoothly. I'd consider it a critical investment. The city will probably address the most pressing maintenance issues while directing some of the budget to necessary expansions. We'll never catch up to 100% of the state of good repair needs.

 

[Richard White]

Even if 100% of the available budget goes to state of good repair, it still won't be enough. But I've heard Tory talking about the Waterfront East LRT when discussing this budget. Buying streetcars is a small portion of the overall budget and absolutely needed to keep up with transit demand and keep the system running more or less smoothly. I'd consider it a critical investment. The city will probably address the most pressing maintenance issues while directing some of the budget to necessary expansions. We'll never catch up to 100% of the state of good repair needs.

Personally I think we need another 500 flexities but that is just my opinion.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Personally I think we need another 500 flexities but that is just my opinion.

If we're going to re-introduce streetcars on Dupont (15), parliament (10), Coxwell (6), and Dufferin (10), while adding lines on Church (6), Bay (8), Ossington (10), Wellesley/Harbord (25), Front (20), Jarvis (10), Greenwood (6), Jones (6), Victoria park (6), Lakeshore Blvd (15), Keele (8), Kipling (8), and extend the 502/503 East (10), the 504 north to St Clair (10), the 505 east to pape (15), the 506 west to keele (4), make the 508 an all-day route (5-15), extend the 509 to Dufferin Gate (4), extend the 510 to St Clair West (10), extend the 511 to Eglinton (20), extend the 512 west to Jane (10), and double the capacity of the existing streetcar network (200), maybe we'll need another 500 of them.

To be clear, from a fantasy perspective, I want this and more, but even if every line was built and the capacities expanded, it would take more than the lifespan of the flexity fleet to complete, and we'd probably be on a new series of LRVs.

 

[drum118]

Personally I think we need another 500 flexities but that is just my opinion.

Where do you plan on running them as well storage them??

I did a report before the TTC Commissioners in 2005 in tripling the system and having close to 700 cars. They weren't impress.

Then Transit City came along that reinforced my view of expanding the systems and number of cars.

Unless you going to have cars every 3 minutes or less as well running lines end to end along the Waterfront; Steeles; Finch; Sheppard; Jane; still do the SRT Plan; extended 512; Eglinton as plan; Dufferin; Bathurst St; Yonge St; going to hard press to find use for those 500 cars. Most of all, where you going to find land to build 2/3 new carhouses?

 

[MetroMan]

Personally I think we need another 500 flexities but that is just my opinion.

Making every streetcar route, a transit priority route like the King Street Pilot, would have a more significant and beneficial effect than just flooding the system with streetcars that end up getting stuck behind car traffic.

Street parking should be permanently banned on Queen, Dundas and College and while "No Through Traffic" at all intersections might not be viable like on King, strategic cut offs on each street, closing some blocks to traffic, would prevent drivers from using these streetcar streets as crosstown routes.

 

[DSC]

Personally I think we need another 500 flexities but that is just my opinion.

Much as I like streetcars this is simply fantasy! If one had a total of 700+ Flexities they could probably be parked end to end over most of the current tracks! For the current routes plus those new ones actually being planned (e.g. Waterfront) plus dealing with filling unmet demand and reasonable expansion of demand you might need another 150. (Plus a new Barn.) Then every time someone suggests a new streetcar route the cost would need to include not only the new track but also the additional cars necessary to operate it, plus a home for them!

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

4598 is tracking on 512 this morning.

 

[drum118]

4598 has enter service today on 512 and currently on 504 after arriving December 19, 2019

4599 is now tracking after arriving December 30, 2019

4406 still not tracking after arriving December 19, 2019

 

[crs1026]

There's a car coming across Northern Ontario this morning, but no number seen as yet. 4600 perhaps?

- Paul

 

[salsa]

I'm reposting this video from a while ago, because it's just great.

 

[cplchanb]

So is the last car on the flatbed yet?.? They promised it would be delivered a few days after the deadline....

 

[drum118]

So is the last car on the flatbed yet?.? They promised it would be delivered a few days after the deadline....

Supposed to be this ship this week. Now what car is that considering 4600-4604 plus 4401 are still not here??

You know the spin doctors are great at saying one thing while it being another thing. Saying a few days when its weeks at the end of the day. Shipping and off loaded are 2 different things contract wise.

Do you really think BBD is going to live up to their promised, as I have a bridge for sale if "ALL" remaining cars are off loaded this week. They have fail on all other promises to date.

 

[cplchanb]

Supposed to be this ship this week. Now what car is that considering 4600-4604 plus 4401 are still not here??

You know the spin doctors are great at saying one thing while it being another thing. Saying a few days when its weeks at the end of the day. Shipping and off loaded are 2 different things contract wise.

Do you really think BBD is going to live up to their promised, as I have a bridge for sale if "ALL" remaining cars are off loaded this week. They have fail on all other promises to date.

Never expected them to make the deadline and for all intents and purposes they are still late. Will Ttc have the spine to take action to punish them for breaking this legal deadline?

 

[dowlingm]

Never expected them to make the deadline and for all intents and purposes they are still late. Will Ttc have the spine to take action to punish them for breaking this legal deadline?

this is a minor failure compared to everything to date, and all TTC got out of those breaches was some warranty extensions. Considering that the streetcar contract (and to an extent the TR contract before it - remember the door levelling issue?) has been an object lesson on the power imbalance between a politically important vendor and a municipal customer, it’s surprising to still see this question asked.

 

[drum118]

this is a minor failure compared to everything to date, and all TTC got out of those breaches was some warranty extensions. Considering that the streetcar contract (and to an extent the TR contract before it - remember the door levelling issue?) has been an object lesson on the power imbalance between a politically important vendor and a municipal customer, it’s surprising to still see this question asked.

TTC hasn't had the backbone to enforce the full cost recovery for the the penalty clause cost and settle for $14 million less and warranty extension. None of the other cost were added the penalty clause cost

One has to go to Eglinton station to see the Joke raised slop edge to deal with BBD failure to deal with door leveling at stations. I have gone flying a few times tripping over the door level that was more than a inch plus higher than it should be. Some of these have been with others at over crowded stations. Seen far too many scooters having issues getting on these high level trains. Some now go up to the guard car to make sure they get on the car and not have to wait for the next train.

All I can say these days, "I told you so starting in 2005 and as late last year that BBD wouldn't full fill the contract on time.' I said in 2018 we wouldn't see the last car until Jan/Feb 2020 and looks like late Jan depending on 4401 since 4604 will be the last car in Jan at this time.

One has to look at that 19 week turn around to fix 67 cars welds and none of the 8 cars shipped so far have seen that turn around under 7 months. Then only 2 have return and 4401 went to Thunder Bay. 4406 still not tracking after returning 18 days ago. 4400 took 49 day to be in service after being off loaded.

Until TTC has the power (willing to do so) to go where it must to get X as well the funding, we are screw. TTC must learn how to write strict contract and enforce them 100%, otherwise, suppliers will continue to screw them.