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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

TOareaFan

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This makes 28 cars so far this year that have been delivery and one more than schedule. Do we count this extra car as part of Q2 or arriving ahead of schedule for Q3??

I am an annual total guy.....now that Q2 is over and the target of 27 is met we are measuring against the cumulative total at end of September (whatever that is) and we are already at 28.....and, honestly, looking forward to the day when we can rely on this continuing unabated so that we don’t have to treat each delivery like a papal visit ;)
 

nfitz

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Most likely 504 cars that are going to Victoria Park due to construction on Broadview.
504 cars don't go to Victoria Park on weekends. They turn at Woodbine Loop. And every time I've been down there this week they've all been CLRVs.
I am an annual total guy.....now that Q2 is over and the target of 27 is met we are measuring against the cumulative total at end of September (whatever that is) and we are already at 28.....and, honestly, looking forward to the day when we can rely on this continuing unabated so that we don’t have to treat each delivery like a papal visit ;)
TTC report the target is for vehicles "Entered into Service", not deliveries. And it's 28. Though they should be close to meeting that, with 86 or 87 vehicles now arrived, compared to only 57 in-service at the end of 2017.

I'm not sure where this 27 number is coming from.
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drum118

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504 cars don't go to Victoria Park on weekends. They turn at Woodbine Loop. And every time I've been down there this week they've all been CLRVs.
TTC report the target is for vehicles "Entered into Service", not deliveries. And it's 28. Though they should be close to meeting that, with 86 or 87 vehicles now arrived, compared to only 57 in-service at the end of 2017.

I'm not sure where this 27 number is coming from.
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You have posted here and elsewhere a schedule from Dec 2017 or about that calls for deliveries of 27 by Q2 compared to monthly delivery in the past. This is a revised schedule.

Talking to Andy in Dec and before then, he stated the schedule was based on delivery on TTC property, even if it takes BBD an extra month here to complete the car.

Since Rick is calling the shots these days, he change that schedule to what you post and BBD will not met it based on deliveries so far this year.

Based on delivery and in service for this year, TTC has received 28 cars, with 22 in service as of June 29. 4483 was last seen 11 hours ago by tracker out in the yard and the rest that are tracking are in the service bays. Assuming the rest are in the service bay as well, or could be in the yard.

As Rick has stated in his monthly report, he doesn't see BBD meeting current schedule for this year.

Regardless, TTC still short around 100 cars and thats piss poor on BBD end.
 

nfitz

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You have posted here and elsewhere a schedule from Dec 2017 or about that calls for deliveries of 27 by Q2 compared to monthly delivery in the past. This is a revised schedule.
Click on the link. That schedule if from a June 2018 TTC Document, not December 2017.

Talking to Andy in Dec and before then, he stated the schedule was based on delivery on TTC property, even if it takes BBD an extra month here to complete the car.
I've no idea if Andy knew the answer, or if you correctly transcribed it.

What we do know, is that the end of December 31, there were 57 cars in service (56th entering service on December 28, and 57th on December 30).

We also know that 59 cars had been delivered (not including 4401) (58th arriving December 22 and 59th arriving December 27).

And we know that Bombardier had shipped 61 cars (60th and 61st both arrived Hillcrest by January 5).

If that table showed 59 or 61 by end of 2017, you might have a valid point. But it clearly says 57 for end of 2017. So it's clearly deliveries.

As Rick has stated in his monthly report, he doesn't see BBD meeting current schedule for this year.
Recently? Most recently TTC said Bombardier could meet 2019 target.

Regardless, TTC still short around 100 cars and thats piss poor on BBD end.
We all know the history here. Why go on about it endlessly? Bombardier's deliveries since Q3 2017 have been stellar. They've already delivered 28 this year after only delivering 29 last year. They delivered 13 in Q4 2017, 10 in Q1 2018, and 18 in Q2 2018.

To meet the 2018 target of 64 in service, they have to have 121 total delivered compared to the 87 currently delivered. That only required 34 more deliveries this year. It will be close, that's for sure - but they are currently on track. Not sure why you aren't celebrating the positive here, instead of dwelling in the past.

Which route do you ride every day? Are you suffering with bustitutions like I am on 506 every day?
 

drum118

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At the end of 2017, there were 59 cars on TTC property, excluding 4401. There were 2 cars in CP Yards Car 4459 was the last car off loaded in 2017 in order.

This means, deliveries is the key point and it based on being on TTC property, not in service or in CP yard.

There is a big different between the Last 2017 schedule for 2018 & 19 based on Quarter deliveries, not the monthly ones up to the end of 2017 to the June 2018 one based on your version.

I and others have being doing quarter delivery based on the last 2017 schedule, with 27 to be delivery by June 29. 28 has so far been delivery. 4486 was to be the 27th car for 2018, but we now have 4487. I believe 4487 happen as it was unsure what was going to happen to 4466 return date.

As it stands now, it taking 15-30 days to get a car ready to enter service compare to 10 days or about in 2016-17. Only 2 cars have enter service under 15 days this year so far.

As Andy stated to me in 2017 a number of times, he wasn't worry about unfinished cars showing up as delivery cars, since staff would be on hand to make sure BBD finish the car correctly and be on top of any issues preventing the car from been tested or enter service sooner, than later. With the longer on site to in service this year time frame, are more cars arriving unfinished and being finish here or a back log maintaining the existing new cars??

If Rich wants to go from deliveries to in service schedule for X cars, that a new ball game and not easy one to say X cars by month, quarter or year based on current time frame. 28 cars on site for 2018 Q2, but only 22 in service as I type this. Maybe 4466 will make June 30 for in service as #23 car.

Q4 could be a killer or maker for BBD, but that 5 month off at this time.

I use various routes based on my needs, but 506 has always been a bitch in the good of times and not going to get any better soon.

You are a strong supporter for BBD, but I am not. If any other company was doing this order, my view would be the same as I have for BBD today.

If I was in charge, a contract would have been awarded in 2016 for the extra 60, with the first prototype been here now or later this year and production cars starting to show up in 2019. Completion would be late 2020 or early 2021 by X company, other than BBD.

I will celebrate when the last car is on TTC property and BBD is history.
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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If I was in charge, a contract would have been awarded in 2016 for the extra 60, with the first prototype been here now or later this year and production cars starting to show up in 2019. Completion would be late 2020 or early 2021 by X company, other than BBD.

The problem with that is convincing City council to pay for it then. The TTC should have oderd new streetcars more then 10 years agao at thgis point when the curent flet was only 30 years old isnsyed becise of city council they waited 10 years too late to do it.

I will celebrate when the last car is on TTC property and BBD is history.
Yes we know what yours and everyone else opinion on them is at this point. Chances are the TTC will likely award them a new contract
 

smallspy

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If I was in charge, a contract would have been awarded in 2016 for the extra 60, with the first prototype been here now or later this year and production cars starting to show up in 2019. Completion would be late 2020 or early 2021 by X company, other than BBD.

With what money?

The TTC hasn't even gotten approval for the additional 60 cars from Bombardier. What makes you think that you could somehow weasel the $500mil or more that it would take from the City to get a new tendering process started in 2015 - since after all, it would take at least a year to get the process rolling before awarding the tender?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

rbt

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With what money?

Indeed. Even with the large promised injections of federal and provincial cash there are going to be many proposed projects currently on the table which remain unfunded in 2028.

Wouldn't be surprised if we took the extra 60 from Bombardier and silently defer the additional 100 beyond that.
 

nfitz

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This means, deliveries is the key point and it based on being on TTC property, not in service or in CP yard.
It is key. I agree. But for some reason, that's not what what TTC is reporting on.

There is a big different between the Last 2017 schedule for 2018 & 19 based on Quarter deliveries, not the monthly ones up to the end of 2017 to the June 2018 one based on your version.
My version? Not my version. I simply copied the one from TTC's website!

I and others have being doing quarter delivery based on the last 2017 schedule, with 27 to be delivery by June 29.
Where did TTC post this 2017 schedule based on deliveries, that has 27 for Q1? I only recall seeing an annual schedule previously. Or is this something you've come up with yourself?

You are a strong supporter for BBD, but I am not. If any other company was doing this order, my view would be the same as I have for BBD today.
Supporter? No, I just want my daily commute back to normal. And that's clearly going to happen years faster if Bombardier get's the next 60.

If I was in charge, a contract would have been awarded in 2016 for the extra 60, with the first prototype been here now or later this year and production cars starting to show up in 2019. Completion would be late 2020 or early 2021 by X company, other than BBD.
You are focusing on the past. And you are being overly optimistic about anyone else's ability to produce, with unrealistic timelines!

Wouldn't be surprised if we took the extra 60 from Bombardier and silently defer the additional 100 beyond that.
I wouldn't either. I almost wonder if the additional 100, was to provide some shock value to the board, more so to get the next 60, than the future 100.
 

drum118

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4408 was the car that had issues with the car on St Clair today

4466 looks like it will enter service on July, 1st as its sitting on track 2 in the yard.

Don't know what up with 4483 that should be the next car to see service, but sat in the yard in the same spot for over 24 hours and now sitting on track 1 inbound for a number of hours.

4484 looks like it being doing not stop testing the last 30 plus hours and currently up on St Clair. I guess with all the new arrival and more to come, time to get cars from test stage to service stage. Could see service by Wed at this rate, but sometime this week.

None of the rest have GPS turn on yet.
 

drum118

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4466 has enter service as a 504 after 17 days been here

4483 still sitting on the in bound track at the Barns where I last saw it
 
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DSC

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I had thought that the TTC's plan was to have only Flexities on the 504 route as soon as possible and that this was already a fact on weekends. Not so yesterday when there were several old streetcars on the 504 route.
 

dowlingm

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As best I can read Transsee there are some Flexities on the 504 Dufferin/Greenwood-Queen branch today. 38 Flexities signed in. Given the weather it was not a good week to lose 4408, and hopefully CLRV 4041 (which has been resting for a few days) is just being held for weekday runs
 

dowlingm

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I had thought that the TTC's plan was to have only Flexities on the 504 route as soon as possible and that this was already a fact on weekends. Not so yesterday when there were several old streetcars on the 504 route.
The reorganization of 504/503/514 for the Broadview works has changed the mathematics a bit - and as I noted above there have been Flexities in Dufferin Loop (nominal CLRV branch) this morning
 

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