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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

Maltesefalcon

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Regarding bunching. I understand the drivers want to hit the stops at the appointed time. But if the cars are on a busy route and are ten mins apart whats the big deal if one arrives a minute or two early and the pax miss their connection? The next one is but a few minutes away.
Of course if its a slower route and the cars are half hour apart, then its important to hit the stops on time.
Maybe it has something to do with how many circuits a driver needs to make on a shift? ie are there quotas?
 

felix123

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The schedule below remains unchanged on the TTC's website. Thoughts on its accuracy?
  • 509 Harbourfront: Now
  • 510 Spadina: Now
  • 514 Cherry: Now
  • 505 Dundas: 2018
  • 511 Bathurst: 2018
  • 501 Queen: 2019
  • 504 King: 2018
  • 512 St Clair: 2017/2018
  • 502 Downtowner: 2019
  • 503 Kingston Rd: 2019
  • 506 Carlton: 2019

Furthermore, a bit of a rant, but what in the actual hell were the TTC thinking with this nonsensical year-long closure of the 505 and 506?! I can't imagine any other city where it would be considered acceptable to casually inform residents a few weeks in advance that two higher-order transit lines are going to be shut down for "we dunno how long lol maybe liek the whole year lol um taek the bus?" <--- TTC's quote on the matter, essentially.
I believe Steve Munro already debunked their streetcar shortage excuse, in that existing rolling stock failures were over-represented by the TTC during the cold snaps this past winter, and that they had already resolved some of the freezing hydraulic door systems that caused issues the previous winter.

I also noticed that the TTC's schedule for trackwork begins in May, so why cancel service on the lines in February? Honestly, I've never felt more like Toronto is the largest, somewhat-progressive city in the world to rely so heavily on lame-ass herky-jerky buses.
 

Megaton327

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Furthermore, a bit of a rant, but what in the actual hell were the TTC thinking with this nonsensical year-long closure of the 505 and 506?! I can't imagine any other city where it would be considered acceptable to casually inform residents a few weeks in advance that two higher-order transit lines are going to be shut down for "we dunno how long lol maybe liek the whole year lol um taek the bus?" <--- TTC's quote on the matter, essentially.

Huh? The 505 and 506 aren't shut down. They're operating with buses instead of streetcars, but they're most certainly not shut down for a year, there aren't even any detours or anything currently. Where are you getting that from?
 

felix123

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Huh? The 505 and 506 aren't shut down. They're operating with buses instead of streetcars, but they're most certainly not shut down for a year, there aren't even any detours or anything currently. Where are you getting that from?

I am of course referring to them being shut down as streetcar routes as this is a specifically streetcar-related thread. Taking the bus instead of the 506 streetcar to work every morning has been terribly unpleasant in comparison. It's a cramped, jostling, straphanging ride the whole way now.
 

Megaton327

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I am of course referring to them being shut down as streetcar routes as this is a specifically streetcar-related thread. Taking the bus instead of the 506 streetcar to work every morning has been terribly unpleasant in comparison. It's a cramped, jostling, straphanging ride the whole way now.

Fair enough complaint, and I agree with you, but it's a gross exaggeration to claim either route is under a "year-long closure" no matter the context of the discussion.
 

nfitz

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Friends of ours that live beside the 512 claim the Flexities are significantly slower than the CLRVs, especially the doors.
If the doors are slower, they are still a lot faster than bus rear doors.

The streetcars aren't slower. They don't feel any slower moving. The times I see travelling on 504 on CLRVs and Flexity's are not different. They still move liked greased lightening in the night when there are no stops to make. Probably just an illusion.

The new trams are slower. It's not an illusion. All the new vehicles, buses, subway trains and new trams have the new style of doors which are much slower to close. It's a safety feature likely.
I've not really noticed. But even if slower, it's going to be better than boarding the rear ALRV and CLRVs, where the door doesn't close until after you get off the steps. I can't see it being a factor.

Reading this immediately drew parallels to an article about MTA deliberately slowing down subway trains. All of these excuses by the TTC are just their own doing and lack of a spine to deal with them up front.
I don't understand your point here. If traffic is lighter than usual somewhere on the route, and they don't slow down, then the vehicle catches up with the one in front of, creating horrendous gaps. Which is what you see on bus routes that aren't being properly managed - like 506 since February. Having no spine, would be speeding up, and creating those gaps.

I am of course referring to them being shut down as streetcar routes as this is a specifically streetcar-related thread.
It was obvious to everyone what you meant. Ignore the trolling.

Taking the bus instead of the 506 streetcar to work every morning has been terribly unpleasant in comparison. It's a cramped, jostling, straphanging ride the whole way now.
Coming back is ever worse. Route management has been horrific, with them running in bunches of 3 or more, often with the final vehicles running empty and very early. And the following vehicle 15+ minutes behind, late and packed. The gross systemic mismanagement by TTC here is shocking.

And I've been timing the things too, as I let Google Timeline track me for a year or so. Bus run times are similar, or slower. Particularly when they have to wait for the rear doors to close, or weave in and out of stops. And such a rough ride in comparison to streetcars.

I'm not sure where those folks on Queen Street were thinking that replacement bus service was much faster - because it's not on Gerrard Street.
 
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TransOp

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Regarding bunching. I understand the drivers want to hit the stops at the appointed time. But if the cars are on a busy route and are ten mins apart whats the big deal if one arrives a minute or two early and the pax miss their connection? The next one is but a few minutes away.
Of course if its a slower route and the cars are half hour apart, then its important to hit the stops on time.
Maybe it has something to do with how many circuits a driver needs to make on a shift? ie are there quotas?

There is no quota, it's a predetermined amount of trips. With a 501 Queen crew for example, during a shift, we generally do 3 round trips. Our schedules are based on departure times from each end and each trip has a certain amount of time allotted to make it from one end to the other. Generally, during busier times of day, more time is alloted though this is not always true. Our trump units show us our deviation from schedule. If we're right on time it will say D, if we're 1 minute ahead it will say +1 if we're 1 minute behind it will say -1 and so on. Some lines like the 506 for example give us a little too much time to get across the city, so 'some of us' (me included) drive slowly to not deviate from the schedule too much. Others don't care and just want to get across as fast as possible even if they get to the end +20. This is the reason why bunching occurs. You have some operators that are following the schedule, and others that don't care and just fly from end to end and end up sitting at each end for 30 minutes not providing any service because they get there so early. If all of the operators drove the same way, headways would be consistent but it's unrealistic to think this would ever happen because everybody has their preferred driving style. Also, when it's time for us to get relieved, we can't arrive at our relief point any earlier than +5, or the relief doesn't have to take it. The car would just be sitting there holding up traffic. In my eyes, it makes more sense for everybody to just operate to schedule.
 
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TransOp

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4469 in service?
https://twitter.com/transsee/status/978384604544499713
(Edit: a CPTDB poster points out that 4468 also signed into 501 during testing)

Friends of ours that live beside the 512 claim the Flexities are significantly slower than the CLRVs, especially the doors. Is that view widely held?
The doors on the Flexities are definitely slower, but the cars themselves accelerate more quickly than the As and Cs do.
 

crs1026

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4471 should be at Hillcrest today. 4472 is in Toronto, waiting its turn for delivery (the TTC spur will only take one load at a time). 4473 is ready for pickup in Thunder Bay. And 4466 has arrived Thunder Bay for rework.

- Paul
 

smallspy

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The doors on the Flexities are definitely slower, but the cars themselves accelerate more quickly than the As and Cs do.

The doors themselves are slower, but you no longer have to wait for people to descend and ascend the stairs. Stops are quicker.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

Neutrino

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4471 should be at Hillcrest today. 4472 is in Toronto, waiting its turn for delivery (the TTC spur will only take one load at a time). 4473 is ready for pickup in Thunder Bay. And 4466 has arrived Thunder Bay for rework.

- Paul

Is this the first schedule Bombardier has met?
 

drum118

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W. K. Lis

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The red button on the doors are to be used to open the doors at the stops. However, currently, the driver opens and closes them (usually). What happens is the driver has to check the cameras to make sure the doors are clear before closing them. Hopefully, once all the streetcars arrive, the public will be informed to actually use the red buttons. (Probably will have to inform the public that several hundred times.)
 

Andy T

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The red button on the doors are to be used to open the doors at the stops. However, currently, the driver opens and closes them (usually). What happens is the driver has to check the cameras to make sure the doors are clear before closing them. Hopefully, once all the streetcars arrive, the public will be informed to actually use the red buttons. (Probably will have to inform the public that several hundred times.)
Also functions as a stop request button.
 

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