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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

nfitz

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If i was, either, their bosses or customers....I would be asking why and how they got the last projection so abysmally wrong.....on December 21 they thought they were going to have a enough parts and time to deliver 63 cars by December 31....yet it ended up being 59.....10 days from the end of year they still did not have enough of a handle on their business to know how many vehicles they could deliver to Toronto by year end...and it is not like they missed by a little....they were off by 4.
Read what they said on the 21st carefull. They said they were going to SHIP 63 by December 31st.

They shipped 61 - and said they could have done 2 more if it wasn't for the part issue. Presumably they thought they were going to get parts in a day or so, that could have let them ship just before 31st. Also, it means that these two are substantially complete.
 

TOareaFan

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Read what they said on the 21st carefull. They said they were going to SHIP 63 by December 31st.

They shipped 61 - and said they could have done 2 more if it wasn't for the part issue. Presumably they thought they were going to get parts in a day or so, that could have let them ship just before 31st. Also, it means that these two are substantially complete.
Ok...with 10 days left in the year....they made a projection that was only off by 2.....doesn't sound much better to me......how many had they shipped up until December 20? How many did that leave them to "ship" before the December 31 date?
 

TOareaFan

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It's possible (and I have zero insight into this) that there are a few all-but-done vehicles sitting in the factory awaiting a common part or small subset of parts. Perhaps a supplier hung them out to dry with a missed shipment. It's pretty pointless to speculate, but that could explain the bad estimate. We'll see if we get a flurry of deliveries in early 2018 now which might indicate they have a bunch of cars close to complete that were waiting on specific parts.
Still indicates they don't have a very good handle on their business.
 

Admiral Beez

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They shipped 61 - and said they could have done 2 more if it wasn't for the part issue. Presumably they thought they were going to get parts in a day or so, that could have let them ship just before 31st. Also, it means that these two are substantially complete.
That's called problem transference, and is one of my greatest frustrations in business and life. You have a problem, so instead of resolving it or predicting/planning it out of your process, you transfer it to your customer. I don't have a part, so now I can break my commitment to you, so now it's not my problem, it's yours. Same goes in life, I get stuck in traffic, call work and tell my boss I'm running late and that he'll need to put off the meeting, so now my tardiness and lack of planning is his problem, not mine.

Best way to avoid problem transference? Manage customer expectations through running your operation with the necessary contingencies to meet your commitments regardless of any but truly and absolutely unforeseeable disasters. When did Bombardier know they were missing components? Did they try to fly the parts in? Did they not have contingent suppliers in case one is late? Why are they cutting it so close with their supply chain? Surely after being in business for over 40 years Bombardier should have supply chain and production management figured out?

My guess is that BBR knows our expectations are pretty low by this point, and that Toronto is numb to further delivery failures. So, they made a Hail Mary promise knowing that if they make it they look like stars, and if they don't, well it looks like business as usual at BBR. No harm either way.
 
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KevinT

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Why are they cutting it slow close with their supply chain?

Indeed. The whole manufacturing world spent the last two decades transitioning to "just in time" delivery to convert inventory to a one-time feel good on the books that appeased Bay St., but will now spend the rest of their lives paying for it in countless other ways that are probably more expensive than the inventory they liquidated. Its psychotic.
 

robmausser

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That's called problem transference, and is one of my greatest frustrations in business and life. You have a problem, so instead of resolving it or predicting/planning it out of your process, you transfer it to your customer. I don't have a part, so now I can break my commitment to you, so now it's not my problem, it's yours. Same goes in life, I get stuck in traffic, call work and tell my boss I'm running late and that he'll need to put off the meeting, so now my tardiness and lack of planning is his problem, not mine.

Best way to avoid problem transference? Manage customer expectations through running your operation with the necessary contingencies to meet your commitments regardless of any but truly and absolutely unforeseeable disasters. When did Bombardier know they were missing components? Did they try to fly the parts in? Did they not have contingent suppliers in case one is late? Why are they cutting it so close with their supply chain? Surely after being in business for over 40 years Bombardier should have supply chain and production management figured out?

My guess is that BBR knows our expectations are pretty low by this point, and that Toronto is numb to further delivery failures. So, they made a Hail Mary promise knowing that if they make it they look like stars, and if they don't, well it looks like business as usual at BBR. No harm either way.

The thing is that the Problem Transference begins at the TTC/City Hall when they signed the most laid back contract with Bombardier in terms of late penalties.

A proper contract with huge losses and penalties for Bombardier would have solved this issue.
 

Admiral Beez

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A proper contract with huge losses and penalties for Bombardier would have solved this issue.
Not when the same company is owned and/or bailed out by government money. At best with the penalties we’d be shuffling tax funds from Ottawa and Quebecers to Torontonians, but still causing little to no harm to BBR.
 
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nfitz

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That's called problem transference, and is one of my greatest frustrations in business and life. You have a problem, so instead of resolving it or predicting/planning it out of your process, you transfer it to your customer. I don't have a part, so now I can break my commitment to you, so now it's not my problem, it's yours. Same goes in life, I get stuck in traffic, call work and tell my boss I'm running late and that he'll need to put off the meeting, so now my tardiness and lack of planning is his problem, not mine.
Everyone is well aware that Bombardier failed on the 70 and later 65-car promise.

But the text I quoted specifically said "In December 21 they thought they were going to have a enough parts and time to deliver 63 cars by December 31....yet it ended up being 59..... ... and it is not like they missed by a little....they were off by 4"

I don't care what you call it ... moving the goalposts, whatever. One can't make fun of them for missing by four cars on a prediction ten days old, when it's very clear that the prediction was about shipping rather than delivery.

Not when the same company is owned and/or bailed out by government money. At best with the penalties we’d be shuffling tax funds from Ottawa and Quebecers to Torontonians, but still causing little to no harm to BBR.
Hang on - like no one has every bailed out Alstom or it's predecessor companies.

And what about that $1 billion fine Alstom got three years in the USA ago after they admitted to bribery.

Hmm ... makes you wonder why Metrolinx was so keen to award a huge contract with no bids in violation of normal standards, at a much higher price than they were already paying for the same thing. I don't know enough about the internal politics between the Minister, Ministry, and Metrolinx, to know who to suspect on that one.

On that thought - I don't recall even seeing an external audit on the Alstom pricing - unlike at TTC, which normally gets an external audit on Bombardier's sole-source pricing. It would be fun to FOIA them about the purchase details.
 
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crs1026

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On that thought - I don't recall even seeing an external audit on the Alstom pricing - unlike at TTC, which normally gets an external audit on Bombardier's sole-source pricing. It would be fun to FOIA them about the purchase details.

Beware Newton's Law of FOI : For every action, there is a redaction.

- Paul
 

Admiral Beez

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And what about that $1 billion fine Alstom got three years in the USA ago after they admitted to bribery.

Hmm ... makes you wonder why Metrolinx was so keen to award a huge contract with no bids in violation of normal standards, at a much higher price than they were already paying for the same thing. I don't know enough about the internal politics between the Minister, Ministry, and Metrolinx, to know who to suspect on that one.
If you're going to slander a government minister, ministry and a corporation, you'd better have evidence. Or be thankful for the anonymity of UT.
 

nfitz

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If you're going to slander a government minister, ministry and a corporation, you'd better have evidence. Or be thankful for the anonymity of UT.
My anonymity isn't that anonymous.

But mentioning Alstom's well reported recent history, and wondering what might be up here, without even saying something is up, and not naming any names isn't slander. When I say Minister, I mean the Minister's Office or Deputy Minister's Office. That Del Duca would have the wits to pull something off personally seems laughable - his staff would be aware, and I don't think that level of conspiracy exists in Ontario. Though it did in Quebec - but everyone in the industry always knew that (though perhaps not just how far it spread). Toronto always seems relatively clean, with corruption being isolated individuals, often at lower levels.
 

White Pine

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I'm actually starting to wonder if Alstom's cars for Ottawa are running late. Not at the same level as Bombardier's but I'm not sure if assembly will be done by May. Coincidentally, the opening date has moved back, but the more obvious cause of this has been construction delays on other parts of the line, especially in the tunnel where the sinkhole was. Hopefully everything will be finished at around the same time.
 

robmausser

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I'm actually starting to wonder if Alstom's cars for Ottawa are running late. Not at the same level as Bombardier's but I'm not sure if assembly will be done by May. Coincidentally, the opening date has moved back, but the more obvious cause of this has been construction delays on other parts of the line, especially in the tunnel where the sinkhole was. Hopefully everything will be finished at around the same time.

I bet Bombardier is praying for a sink hole on Eglinton to delay the opening.

Might see some Bomb employees opening up all the fire hydrants on Eglinton or something of that nature
 

salsa

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