Richard White
Senior Member
Good point. Shame they cannot just put them on a barge and send them down Lake Superior via Lake St Clair, the Niagara River, Lake Erie and and Lake Ontario.
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Good point. Shame they cannot just put them on a barge and send them down Lake Superior via Lake St Clair, the Niagara River, Lake Erie and and Lake Ontario.
timio
Active Member
Locks in Sault and Niagara are closed for the winter, not to mention the massive amount of ice in the way of reaching said locks. Ice was freely flowing down the St. Clair River near Sarnia this week, but there are likely some fun jams upstream.
drum118
Superstar
LOL..............Thats a great laugh.
You think CP takes long, this barge will be not only longer, but costly. The earliest TTC would see this barge would be April when the shipping season opens. You will need a crane to off load the cars onto special RR cars to be moved to Leslie St where they would be placed on TTC tracks with another crane.
There are 100's of flats that can be set up to carry TTC cars, but up to BBD to lease them and fit them with rails. You need to allow 2 weeks for turn around per car. The shipping cost is based on a car, regardless if its one or 3 on the same train. If BBD is to ship 3 cars a week in 2018 or more, then you need at least 12 flats on hand.
Richard White
Senior Member
Fine.... we can just airlift them in? Rent an Antonov An-225?
drum118
Superstar
No matter which way you look at it, going to cost big bucks to ship TTC cars by other means if they aren't ship by rail,
How do you plan getting the cars to/from the airports?? Are you shipping them as one piece or sections??
If shipping in sections, they will have to be taken apart after been tested in TB and put back together at the Barns with a crane loading/unloading at both ends.
Even if you ship as one piece, you need a crane at both ends as well a special trailer to ship the cars to/from the airports as well police escort.
crs1026
Senior Member
I haven't been keeping a log, but I can't think of a single Flexity that took an unreasonable amount of time to reach Toronto by rail. CP hasn't lost or damaged any, nor has its line been closed for any length of time. Rail works just fine.
The problem we all find painful is - you can't ship a tram that hasn't been built yet. Transportation isn't TTC's problem.... production delays is.
- Paul
The problem we all find painful is - you can't ship a tram that hasn't been built yet. Transportation isn't TTC's problem.... production delays is.
- Paul
Towered
Senior Member
Anyways, through all the wanky blah blah blah, what matters is the numbers - with 2 days to go, how many new streetcars are on our streets?
drum118
Superstar
4457 is in service on 510 giving TTC 56 new cars in service and not close to 65 as plan. 4456 still in the Barns
nfitz
Superstar
In previous years, the target was delivered and not in service.
No reason to think that's any different this year.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Was gonna say the same thing......but still quite a bit short no matter how you count ‘em.
Doesn’t seem that long ago that TTC said the target of 65 would be missed and that they thought it would be 60......to which BBD said they still expected 65....now, on the last business day of the year, is 60 delivered even possible?
Let’s, also, not lose sight of the fact the target of 65 was only established on October 21.....up until then the target for this year was to have 70 delivered.
nfitz
Superstar
There have been Saturday and Sunday deliveries before.
I thought the last estimates were 64 and then 63 at the last board meeting. Personally, if it's on a CP train somewhere - close enough for me.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Yes, if they get here before Midnight on Sunday....yes, count them......but is that gonna even get us to 60?
So a target/schedule established a little over 2 months ago is still gonna be missed....and by a fair bit it seems.
I have been very sympathetic to BBD and, I guess, somewhat cheering for them to get this sorted out. There was a point earlier this year where I thought they had fixed things. It appears not and things still seem messed up.
drum118
Superstar
As long as a car is on TTC property, the cars has been delivery and meets BBD target number.
As it stands, TTC has only received 58 cars to date, and 6/7/12 short of target number by BBD for 2017. As to where 4459 is as well 4460 & 4461 in transit, unless they are on TTC property by Dec 31, BBD still miss targets for 2017.
64 was the last target number at TTC meeting, down from 65 reduced this year and 70 plan for in 2016,
dowlingm
Senior Member
They aren't. Recent shipments have included two cars at a time. CP services Thunder Bay often enough that this is sufficient and bear in mind the limitations of Hillcrest Spur and that there seems to be some rigidity in TTC's commissioning process so having even handfuls of cars arrive at once isn't going to be helpful. Where backlogs have been an issue appears to be with incoming parts (with cabs being flown from Vienna etc).
nfitz
Superstar
I'm not sure there's a published standard for such things. Quite frankly if there's 3 of them stacked waiting in Agincourt yard when everyone goes back to work on January 2nd, I'm good, and two more in transit before those are delivered, I'm good.
4459 is signed in as a 506 - heading east on St. Clair at Oakwood; presumably testing still.
Ah that's right, on December 11. And then on December 21 they changed it to "produce 63 by December 31 ... 63 will be shipped by year end".
Not sure why you keep going on about old targets. The current target seems reasonable enough. I'm amazed they've done so well in the last 3 months or so.