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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

drum118 said:
Dec 7
Looking at Broadview Loop today, there is no way to extend the loop for 2 Flexity without a major rebuilt, as well taking over the parking lot to the east. Even then, you may have to rebuilt the whole surface area, which will mean closing the station for a few years.
Click to expand...

Certainly a busy and tough access loop, along with Dundas West. Always get a kick when yielding to streetcars out of there. Very Toronto. Not many places on the continent where it's a common occurrence for avg Joes to wave through 50-ton trains.

Probably a good idea to weigh the benefits of significantly modifying Broadview Loop with the *possibility* of a new loop at Gerrard RL/ST station. Obviously long term. But in doing so maybe in 10-15yrs we could slash Broadview's streetcar numbers by 50% or more.
 
drum118 said:
Dec 7
Looking at Broadview Loop today, there is no way to extend the loop for 2 Flexity without a major rebuilt, as well taking over the parking lot to the east. Even then, you may have to rebuilt the whole surface area, which will mean closing the station for a few years.
Click to expand...

The 505 DUNDAS eastern routing could be rerouted along Dundas Street East to terminate at Carlaw Avenue & Gerrard Street East for the future Gerrard Station(s) serving the Relief Line & SmartTrack. That would help the Broadview Station. See link.
 
W. K. Lis said:
The 505 DUNDAS eastern routing could be rerouted along Dundas Street East to terminate at Carlaw Avenue & Gerrard Street East for the future Gerrard Station(s) serving the Relief Line & SmartTrack. That would help the Broadview Station. See link.
Click to expand...

That'd be pretty major. Could just use the existing Broadview/Gerrard junction then go along Gerrard to any new Pape loop.
 
W. K. Lis said:
The 505 DUNDAS eastern routing could be rerouted along Dundas Street East to terminate at Carlaw Avenue & Gerrard Street East for the future Gerrard Station(s) serving the Relief Line & SmartTrack. That would help the Broadview Station. See link.
Click to expand...
I agree going to Carlaw and thought this should be done decades ago a few decades ago, but Dundas is a lot narrow east of Broadview.

Those who normally take the current 505 to/from Broadview would have to do an extra transfer. Taking the line north to the subway is not that simple or easy to do and will be costly to do it.

Again, having a underground loop at Broadview going to be very pricey and where do you put the portal for it??
 
Been told the problems with the Roncy platforms are minor to the point it maybe done in 2018 or 2019 when the King/Roncy/Queen intersection is being rebuilt.

The problem has to do to the height of the yellow safety edge being higher than they should be and various from stop to stop. This will require removing the existing material and either saw cut the area out to the correct height or chip it out. Other than the gap between the car and platforms, there is nothing stopping accessibility riders or strollers from getting on/off the car without using the ramp.

4454 is not tracking at this time. I thought 4453 would be in service Thursday based on what I have observed this week, but as I went to bed Wed night at 1 am, 4453 was heading to St Clair, considering it been in the service bay all day. No idea how long it was out, but in the service bay at this time and has moved from one location to another in the last 24 hrs. Could be in service this weekend, depending on the issue that had the car to go out Wed night.

4452 is in the service bay. 4450 was on 514 and heading to the Barn with 4451 up on St Clair.
 
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4454 is still not tracking.

4453 is now in the yard to enter service on Sat and may enter on route 504.
 
drum118 said:
Looking at Broadview Loop today, there is no way to extend the loop for 2 Flexity without a major rebuilt
Click to expand...
I reckong it's currently aboout 2.5 CLRVs long - as when you are on the third car, you can only get off the front door. So about 37 m.

Measuring on Google Maps, I get 38 m. So that's about right. Need about 22 m for a second Flexity. Ouch.

There's some room to expand the platform. Even right now, you could push it a it forward (not sure how people get to the 505 platform though ...). But then if you look at the track as it curves up to Erindale, it has a straight bit in it - which means you could lengthen it, without making the curve tighter.

If you'll excuse the very quick-and-dirty MSPaint sketch below ... I reckon you could extend the platform something like that green rectangle. Which measures about 16 m.

54 metres - still pretty tight. But perhaps if you did the sketch properly ... or even move the track to the right edge of Erindale instead of the centre of the road you could barely squeeze in 2 Flexities, with a relatively small rebuild of just the 504 track. a bit of the bus platforms, and only losing a few spots of parking, and not destroying the park again.

Even better, give up on a straight platform, and use that entire curve out to near Erindale. You could probably squeeze 3 Flexitys in there!

upload_2017-12-9_7-14-41.png
 

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It's remarkable that only now are we discussing this. One would have thought that this would have been anticipated, planned and fixed when the new cars were ordered...and with the manufacturing delay, we would have shiny new loops waiting for Flexities rather than having an emerging problem so late in the game.

The end solution to my mind ought to involve loops that are beyond the subway station, so that layovers take place without holding up passengers and following streetcars. A big job, and more complicated in the sense that each car will pass through the station twice. However, when tap-on is implemented and all platforms effectively are no longer 'fare paid' zones, perhaps every car will dump its load on the street, head to a loop, and then only enter the station on its return trip. or vv.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
It's remarkable that only now are we discussing this. One would have thought that this would have been anticipated, planned and fixed when the new cars were ordered...and with the manufacturing delay, we would have shiny new loops waiting for Flexities rather than having an emerging problem so late in the game.

The end solution to my mind ought to involve loops that are beyond the subway station, so that layovers take place without holding up passengers and following streetcars. A big job, and more complicated in the sense that each car will pass through the station twice. However, when tap-on is implemented and all platforms effectively are no longer 'fare paid' zones, perhaps every car will dump its load on the street, head to a loop, and then only enter the station on its return trip. or vv.

- Paul
Click to expand...

In respect of layovers, why not just use step-back crewing? The vehicle doesn't need a break, just the operator.

***

That said, because traffic flow is imperfect, and its highly desirable to avoid having streetcars back-up and obstruct regular traffic in the road, platforms should ideally hold 2 vehicle lengths anyway. This also allows, in theory, for the separation of off-loading and loading.
 
Northern Light said:
In respect of layovers, why not just use step-back crewing? The vehicle doesn't need a break, just the operator.
Click to expand...

I wondered the same thing. The drawback that I can see is that (moreso than the subway) because of short turns etc it's much harder to predict what run arrives at the loop when. So the step-back operator has to be prepared to take whatever run shows up next - that run may be late, early, or even a different destination or route than the one they stepped off a few minutes earlier. It's not insurmountable, but it would take a good information system to know what operator has assumed what run and what restrictions (lunch, quit time and changeoff location, etc) that has created. And a control center that can react to all that dynamically. And CBA rules that don't conflict with that.

Also, step-back crewing doesn't solve the problem of a car that arrives early, and can't move on because their departure time is a few minutes away, blocking the cars behind.

That's what led me to thinking the solution has to be to feed streetcars through the subway interface on a stop, dump, load, and go proposition. Move the lags and the operator rest times somewhere up the road. Don't have streetcars sitting in the subway platform either to match schedule or to provide operator rest breaks. Expensive, but more reliable. (And to declare my bias - if it turned out that the best place to turn 504/505 was Runnymede and Dundas, instead of Dundas West Station - where's the harm in that? ;-) )

- Paul
 
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