TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[W. K. Lis]

The 509 skips stops in the morning due to overfilled streetcars after Spadina. I've even seen Flexities skip stops due to being jammed. And in the afternoon its the same story of jammed Streetcars. Its defiantly not over serviced.

Looks like a 1 Flexity to replace 1 CLRV for the 509. Is the 510 at a 1:1 conversion?

If they have to go 1:1, that'll mean the TTC will not just the new 204 Flexities on order, but the additional 60+ as well. More on the "plus" side.

 

[dowlingm]

Looks like a 1 Flexity to replace 1 CLRV for the 509. Is the 510 at a 1:1 conversion?

If they have to go 1:1, that'll mean the TTC will not just the new 204 Flexities on order, but the additional 60+ as well. More on the "plus" side.

I saw recently that TTC want BBD damages in additional vehicles, so the starting point might be 210 rather than 204. Straight 1:1 a bit much to hope for since not all the network has had downtown's growth. Before we get that far the question of "what if BBD don't make the MTBF number at car 60" has to be addressed.

 

[Steve X]

Looks like a 1 Flexity to replace 1 CLRV for the 509. Is the 510 at a 1:1 conversion?

If they have to go 1:1, that'll mean the TTC will not just the new 204 Flexities on order, but the additional 60+ as well. More on the "plus" side.

NO. There were 3 branches 501A/B/C with 21 CLRVs operating before the change. The morning had 15 and evening would go down to 18 and then 8 when it's past 10pm. Now there is 14 throughout the day except 12 in the morning and 8 when it's past 10pm to maintain the same headways as before. The 510C branch to King stopped operating so more streetcars service operate south of King. Running time is added to every trip. It's closer to a 1:1.75 conversion ratio.

Harbourfront is one of the few routes that's getting a 1:1 conversion. The 502, 503 and 501 on Lake Shore would get the same treatment. Things had changed since they planned the 204 streetcar plan which means 204 isn't enough. In fact 264 might not be enough either. The 501 on Lake Shore was planned for the old 12'20" headway. Not it's at 9'30" and would get a 1:1 replacement. The 502/503 had 3 cars added to make up for the additional time. Most streetcar routes got more trip time too. Plus the 514 was introduced. TTC would need closer to 300 cars within the next 15 years plus the portland expansion. It would be interesting to see they bring up a new carhouse or storage in the near future.

 

[TransitBart]

Boxing Day Special. 509 is an all Flexity route today. Notwithstanding that we are pretzelling these cars at the Fleet loop. Six on 509.

 

[muller877]

. It would be interesting to see they bring up a new carhouse or storage in the near future.

I would love to have seen the TTC commit to density by future proofing the Leslie street barns with supports for bus storage on future second floor (and the same with Mount Dennis). Instead we will take up valuable industrial space with low-density storage.

 

[drum118]

I have said to TTC Commissioners since the start of looking at replacing the fleet that we needed to do a 1:1 to deal with the cattle car effect at the time as well today. Even then, you are only dealing with the current demand and not the pend up or having accessibility rider use the system for the first time.

It may have been 2005 or 2006 when I made a statement at a TTC meeting that I saw TTC having a fleet of 600 plus cars and hundred of miles going out into the 905 for new and old routes. Eyes were rolling after making that statement. Then Transit City happen and that would get close to my numbers.

TTC needs about 70 cars extra today before looking any new lines and cars for them.

Finch, Steeles, Sheppard needs to be end to end routes, not the short stub being plan. With Eglinton now going to be end to end and a mixture of Toronto and Metrolinx ownership, going to have to double the number of cars for that route.

We know Dufferin should be LRT, but how to do it is very costly to do it.

Queens Quay E was to open in 2014 and still waiting for it. Its going to need 10 plus cars, especially now with the triple density being plan for it now, not what was vision back in 2004-2008.

You will find many carhouses in Europe above or below ground with trams on one level and buses on another level. Here is one from Geneva that has trams & buses on the ground floor, buses on the 2nd & 3rd level above it with some employee parking as well underground.

 

[drum118]

4430 has spent most the day in the service bay and currently (4:24) westbound on Dundas St at Parliament St. It did 506 yesterday without in service testing and no idea if it has done the testing on that route yet. Has spent a fair amount of time in Long Branch.

It should be a full burn mileage or near it to the point the car could go into service Tuesday to Thursday. In the past, the car has spent a day or so in the service bay before entering service. 4429 spent an extra day in the service bay and enter service a day later than I thought it would and the same can happen to 4430. Either way, TTC will have 30 cars in service come Dec 31 unless something happens to force 4430 to start in Jan.

Now the guessing game when 4431 show up.

 

[W. K. Lis]

... It would be interesting to see they bring up a new carhouse or storage in the near future.

The Hillcrest shops are currently used for heavy duty maintenance on the CLRV/ALRV (PCC/Peter Witts) streetcars. The Leslie barns will be used for heavy duty maintenance on the Flexities. Which means the land at Hillcrest could be turned over for additional car barn space for the Flexities in the future, especially for the 512 ST. CLAIR (maybe 511 BATHURST as well) streetcars.

See information on Hillcrest at this link.

Very likely reconfiguration of the tracks would have to be done.

 

[Steve X]

Since they are building the St Clair GO/SmartTrack Station along Townsley St and would need to buy up some land to build the station along with a bus plus streetcar loop. They could consider building up the flea market building for a yard storage. It's already a noisy area with industrial business and railway. A new yard wouldn't make it worst.

 

[pstogios]

Boxing Day Special. 509 is an all Flexity route today.

Now why did that happen? Was there Boxing Day shopping somewhere along this route?

 

[DSC]

The Hillcrest shops are currently used for heavy duty maintenance on the CLRV/ALRV (PCC/Peter Witts) streetcars. The Leslie barns will be used for heavy duty maintenance on the Flexities. Which means the land at Hillcrest could be turned over for additional car barn space for the Flexities in the future, especially for the 512 ST. CLAIR (maybe 511 BATHURST as well) streetcars.

See information on Hillcrest at this link.

Very likely reconfiguration of the tracks would have to be done.

The TTC are currently discussing Hillcrest. Lots of useful info on this on Steve Munro at https://stevemunro.ca/2016/11/26/ttc-board-meeting-november-30-2016/#more-16671 They are about to build a new streetcar way building.

 

[drum118]

Hillcrest is also used to build the whole intersection track work now that will be broken down into new panel system to allow faster insulation when work starts on rebuilding the intersection. That area is supposed to be redevelop now for the new system.

Once the existing fleet is gone, it will free up space for a new carhouse and major repair shop for buses. Again, if TTC follow what takes place in Europe, a new complex could have buses above the new fleet or below, doubling what TTC has today. The new carhouse would service 511 & 512 cars, cutting dead heading by 95%. Other cars could be store there for other routes, depending on how many the new complex hold.

4430 has being either showing up in Lake Ontario or not at all most of the day. It currently showing up in the service bay. Like the last few cars that has seen the same thing, 4430 could enter into service Wed or no later than Thur. If it is Wed, will be the fastest in service car to date of 6 days, considering it arrived at the Barns Dec 21 night.

Since TTC will loose the longest route for testing, as well less traffic on it in 2017 with the Queensway being rebuilt, it most likely take a little longer to get the burn in done, other being out all night on 512.

An after thought is this area could have a TTC Museum to house various TTC fleet equipment that can't make the road anymore, as well other items pertaining to TTC Past

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I'm curious about who controls the timing of the lights for the streetcars on the rights of ways? Is it the City or does the TTC set them? Because they way the are set up is kind of odd and allows two streetcars to occupy the same block of track. Alos it could probably help at Spadina to have the timing of the signal at the entrance be set so that a streetcar can enter and drop off passengers and pull forward so there isn't a line of them waiting in the tunnel, They could alos add a signal at Queens Quay to hold a car until Union is clear as well, as it sometimes has cars backing up in the tunnel too.

 

[dowlingm]

Does Hillcrest have fueling facilities right now for buses? Not having to seek approval for that might ease possible objections to garage use. All the same, an upper-level garage sounds a bit more ambition that one would normally credit the TTC with, especially in winter if engines were being run overnight and noise were to travel further.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Does Hillcrest have fueling facilities right now for buses? Not having to seek approval for that might ease possible objections to garage use. All the same, an upper-level garage sounds a bit more ambition that one would normally credit the TTC with, especially in winter if engines were being run overnight and noise were to travel further.

Most buses have to be stored indoors in a garage overnight, to keep them warm in winter. Bus heaters are just like your car, get their heat from their engines.

Streetcars and subway trains are stored outdoors, since the heaters are not run off their engines.