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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

wyliepoon said:
Don't be so quick to criticize the existing CLRVs now that we are getting new streetcars, Mr. Hume. I'd say if it wasn't for the CLRVs Toronto might not have a streetcar network today, and you won't have a new streetcar design to drool over.

The CLRV streetcar is unique to Toronto. It's the number one transportation icon of modern Toronto, and shows up in quite a number of postcard shots of the city. I'd like to see it retired honourably, and some should be preserved in a heritage fleet.
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Though I nevertheless think the CLRVs suffer from one cardinal problem, mythos-wise: they're not the PCCs. Faithful, sturdy workhorses as they are, they're all too much a product of that awkward Yacht Rock era of public infrastructure when the TTC "ditched the cream" and all that...
 
W. K. Lis said:
What? No PRIMOVE Catenary-Free Technology? Darn.
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Some North American city sooner or later will most likely order the Bombardier Primove and everyone here in Toronto will be wondering why we didnt. Then again i guess it makes more sense for a more up to date eco-city that has the majority of its hydro wires already buried underground to be ordering this kind of technology.
 
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Bombardier's Primove hasn't been implemented anywhere yet but it is probably less risky and would have similar installation costs to the catenary-free Bordeau LRT which requires a ground power rail.
 
Automation Gallery said:
Some North American city sooner or later will most likely order the Bombardier Primove and everyone here in Toronto will be wondering why we didnt. Then again i guess it makes more sense for a more up to date eco-city that has the majority of its hydro wires already buried underground to be ordering this kind of technology.
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Washington DC can use it since overhead wires are not allow and that how streetcars operated there before.
 
I wonder if Montréal will order their trams from Bombardier or go with someone else? Montréal's tram operations came to an end on August 31, 1959. They are now in the planning stages for 3 tramway lines and the return of trams.
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With or without the headlights?
 
W. K. Lis said:
What? No PRIMOVE Catenary-Free Technology? Darn.
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I actually question how much serious examination it was given. I'm in an urban planning class where Rod McPhail (Transportation planner for Toronto) is the prof, and I brought up the technology with him regarding its potential use on Transit City. He was unaware of it, but seems intrigued by it, and has told me he's going to look into why it isn't in the TTC's plans. When he gets back to me, I'll let you all know what he says.
 
Jupiter said:
I actually question how much serious examination it was given. I'm in an urban planning class where Rod McPhail (Transportation planner for Toronto) is the prof, and I brought up the technology with him regarding its potential use on Transit City. He was unaware of it, but seems intrigued by it, and has told me he's going to look into why it isn't in the TTC's plans. When he gets back to me, I'll let you all know what he says.
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The PRIMOVE technology would be considered a luxury item.

At one time, air conditioning was considered a luxury. That is why there's a $100 air conditioning tax on motor vehicles. Wonder if the TTC will have to still the air conditioning tax on non-petroleum vehicles like streetcars or subway cars?
 
W. K. Lis said:
The PRIMOVE technology would be considered a luxury item.

At one time, air conditioning was considered a luxury. That is why there's a $100 air conditioning tax on motor vehicles. Wonder if the TTC will have to still the air conditioning tax on non-petroleum vehicles like streetcars or subway cars?
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I think there's probably a number of concerns. Even if it is a luxury, it may not be significantly more expensive to implement when factoring in the costs of stringing and maintaining the wires, weather issues, etc.

I think the main concern might be the lack of compatibility when using the technology. Old streetcars will be completely unable to use it, and it would also limit any further streetcar purchases to Bombardier.

Still, I think it definitely deserves some additional consideration...
 
Yeah, PRIMOVE would definitely make connecting the streetcar lines to LRT impossible, but I was under the impression that the TTC wouldn't be connecting the streetcar lines to LRT anyways. Not that I'm for PRIMOVE, I don't really have a problem with the overhead wires, but I agree that it should be considered, especially if we should be having plans of connecting the LRT to Streetcar in the future. If we're gonna be updating the Streetcars for the 21st century, I see no reason why not to upgrade the Tracks (other than money, of course :p)
 
I'd like to know how much energy loss there is due to the primove system before we invest heavily in it.

Also, wouldn't this also exclude us from using non-Bombardier vehicles in the future?
 
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