MiWay1137
New Member
That article's incorrect, it entered service on 509.
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That article's incorrect, it entered service on 509.
drum118
Superstar
I guess the PR wasn't aware there was attempt to get this car in service on Friday and already gone home for the weekend when the car went into service.
Better than nothing at all, but seeing this would be better: TTC is happy to report that 4604 has enter service today and is the last car under the current contract to replace the aging fleet that are now running on all the city lines.
pstogios
Senior Member
In English: it looks like we are SOL and stuck with this f*** up snake oil company for a very long time.
This is becoming farsical.
At what point in time does TTC say enough is finally enough? If they keep refusing to cancel the contract and re-tender because that will take years, do they wait forever, hoping the snake oil company gets their sh** together?
Steve X
Senior Member
And have nobody bidding on the new contract or have Siemens/Alstom bid twice as expensive and TTC not see another revenue car in 5 years? We cannot say if Siemens/Alstom can make a working car for TTC's super unique network. The ramp would have to be redesigned from scratch plus they'll have to build an assembly factory in the GTA. That's 2-3 years and a few hundred million down the drain. The ramp on the current 17 streetcars isn't the final ramp design either. It might take other companies 5 years to get it right.
TTC also doesn't want to be stuck with a small fleet of Flexitys and million wasted to pay to get out of the current contract. The crosstown LRVs are an option of this contract so that would be affected too.
If TTC says enough, the better option is to move to buses.... except they don't fit in streetcar tunnels nor ROWs. Leslie Barns would be wasted. So TTC is stuck with BBD for good even if they don't deliver 4 a month.
drum118
Superstar
As I stated in the past, if TTC issues a new tender this year, there will be at least 4 bidders if not more. You have Siemens, Alstom, CAF, CNR, Kinki Sharyo, Stadler right off the bat, but hard to say if Siemens would bid this time since they have a huge backlog of cars on order at this time with one being the same size as TTC. Alston in 2005 could have 2 prototype cars here in 2007 that was an off the shelve model that would meet almost all of TTC requirement then.
CNR is building a $60 million dollar plant for Boston order. So it not going to be the 100's of million for a new plant here. Then, if its someone new to NA with no plant here, they would build the plant most likely in the US to comply with Buy America rules and setting up a temporary site here like Alston has done in Ottawa.
Since the ramp design was mostly TTC design from what I know, it can be used by the next supplier. A pretender meeting lasting a few days would be held at the Leslie Barns for bidder to inspect the current new cars to see what they have to come up with in their bids to comply with the tender in the first place. I sure TTC will add a few things they have learn from the current new fleet to that tender
BBD did the first batch orders of cars for Minneapolis cars with Siemens doing the lion share now, but they can't be hook together. Budapest went with Siemens and now using CAF for the longest car in the world as well shorter ones. No reason why TTC can't have more than one supplier. A lot other examples out there.
How can TTC move to buses when they don't have them in the first place, no garage for them and will take 2 years to start getting them and another 2 years for the garages?? TTC is upgrading the existing fleet to last until 2025 and that is time to get another supplier cars here.
Then, what happen if BBD close the doors in the next 24 months?? Need to tender a contract for the remaining order. So what is this issue doing it now than later??
As for Metrolinx order, thats their problem, not TTC. Metrolinx knows of the problem since last year as well the inspection done by the TTC Chair and CEO.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
They could start a new bid for new streetcars from scratch from another manufacturer and those streetcars would be delivered faster than the current new ones.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Not unless the parts still come the very same sub-suppliers.
nfitz
Superstar
In service on 509 today.
ottbike
Active Member
So... *almost* halfway through April and no sign of 4419?
W. K. Lis
Superstar
ottbike
Active Member
I'd assume that "4 a month" for BBD means, "off our hands and given to CP"
Amare
Senior Member
From what i've heard 4419 is complete, but I have no idea if it's been shipped or not from Thunder Bay
Towered
Senior Member
I love how we're all waiting with bated breath for this joke of a company to live up to their own laughably fluid schedule.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
I love how everyone likes to say bombardier is a joke of a company all because of this one order. Don't forget we had them deliver both the T1's and Toronto Rockets. They are working on new cars, refurbishing old cars for Metrolinx/ Go transit. They are also presumably working on the LRTs for Ion in Kitchener. Yes they should have had more streetcars her in Toronto by now but calling them a joke or a snake oil salesmen will not get them her faster.
Amare
Senior Member
But the thing is, they are a joke of a company the way things are being operated right now. They've had issues with the Flexities, TR's, London Underground Signal contract, C Series, supply management, etc... All this within the past 4 years and I haven't even mentioned the other issues plaguing the company at the moment. I'll put it this way, 5 years ago if anyone told you Bombardier would consider selling it's Transportation division they would think that you're crazy and have no idea what you're talking about. Now it's come to the point that people are not only expecting it, they are wondering how much they'll sell off.
Many things can change in 1 years, let alone 15 years (the date the last T1 was delivered to the TTC). The Flexities are an example of just some of the problems that are plaguing the company.