D
Duck
Guest
"Holy crap, you guys still have trains mixed with traffic on the road? You haven't figured out yet that rapid transit should be elevated on an overhead guideway or below ground?"
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"Holy crap, you guys still have trains mixed with traffic on the road? You haven't figured out yet that rapid transit should be elevated on an overhead guideway or below ground?"
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
If I were someone in 1960s seeing a 2015 LFLRV, that'd be the least of my concerns. I'd probably call CSIS (well, RCMP at the time) to figure out if you're a foreign spy and how the hell you acquired this alien technology. The computers in the LFLRV alone would transform 1960s society and would advance us technologically by at least 40 years.
But looking from a purely transpiration point of view, I'd be happy that the streetcar abandonment plan was abandoned and would wonder why we this isn't a flying, self driving streetcar
But looking from a purely transpiration point of view, I'd be happy that the streetcar abandonment plan was abandoned and would wonder why we this isn't a flying, self driving streetcar
44 North
Senior Member
I'm not sure if the streetcar abandonment policy was as absolute as: abandon all streetcars. Rather it was the gradual removal of many mixed street-running routes, and the upgrading of other routes to more modern Light Rail. Most (or all) of the Queen Subway proposals I've seen - some of which occurred during this "policy" - were to use streetcars/light rail. Run underground downtown, and along the surface outside the core - possibly on an ROW of sorts.
So I think had the policy continued, we still would've ended up with streetcars on some routes, and some significantly enhanced/newer streetcar routes. Not an outright or complete abandonment of the streetcar/light rail vehicle. Though I'm not 100% on this.
So I think had the policy continued, we still would've ended up with streetcars on some routes, and some significantly enhanced/newer streetcar routes. Not an outright or complete abandonment of the streetcar/light rail vehicle. Though I'm not 100% on this.
drum118
Superstar
The best person to say if any lines would exist today if things went as plan is Steve Munro since he help to save the system in the 70's.
My take is that all the lines would cease to exist if the plan remain in place to do so. No lines would be seen today and a good thing it didn't happen.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I don't know how we'd deal with today's ridership demand on the streetcar network, coupled with the ridiculous streetcar ridership growth in the past few years.
Mixed traffic operation likely would not have worked. We might have had a BRT on Queen, King, Spadina and other high volume routes. Car drivers wouldn't like that for sure.
Our most likely "solution" would have been to do nothing at all and artificially limit surface ridership.
Mixed traffic operation likely would not have worked. We might have had a BRT on Queen, King, Spadina and other high volume routes. Car drivers wouldn't like that for sure.
Our most likely "solution" would have been to do nothing at all and artificially limit surface ridership.
rbt
Senior Member
That is the most likely solution, and it has been implemented on routes like Dufferin.
Napoleon
Active Member
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Bring back the Dufferin streetcar!
nfitz
Superstar
There's as much track on Dufferin now, as there's ever been. Service has only ever been sporadic on Dufferin from Queen to Dufferin loop. Though it does look like there will be a new 514 streetar service along King from Dufferin Loop to Cherry Loop - which might give Dufferin more full-day streetcar service than it's ever had.
Though I can't think of a better target for a new mixed-traffic streetcar line up to Bloor.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The Dufferin streetcar would be a worthy investment even north of Bloor. At the very least I'd bring it up to Dufferin Station on the Eglinton Lime.
ShonTron
Moderator
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There was about 100 metres of track on Dufferin between Hallam and Lappin until 1947, part of the Harbord Line. That was the only non-seasonal, regularly-scheduled streetcar service ever to operate on any part of Dufferin Street.
salsa
Senior Member
If the streetcar is to go north of Bloor, it should go the entire route all the way to Wilson. Splitting the route in half is not very convenient for people.
Unfortunately, any new mixed-traffic streetcar operations are a political non-starter, and Dufferin doesn't have room for a ROW. There's a reason why every streetcar project in the past ~30 years has been a semi-exclusive ROW streetcar. The mixed traffic streetcar network as is big as it's ever going to get.
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
Interestingly, I don't think a mixed traffic streetcar would get provincial or federal funding. When I attended an info session for the London LRT/BRT, a guy from the city told me that getting streetcar/trolleybus money would be almost impossible because the political appetite is for rapid transit, not standard transit.
smallspy
Senior Member
There has never, ever, ever been a finite plan to pursue an EA for the streetcar extension past Gunns Rd. The TTC has had it on its "wants" list for many years, and the roadway allowance has been kept intact all the way to Scarlett (and beyond) enough to allow it to be built. But a plan to produce an EA, with money allocated? Never.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.