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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

The picture of the O-Train you had posted was the older Talent Series, built by Bombardier and now retired. The new O-Trains are LINT Coradias from Alstom. The Confederation Line LRTs, now being assembled in Ottawa, are Alstom Citadis Spirits.
What a waste of money. Ottawa basically dug up hundreds of millions of dollars worth of infrastructure (BRT) to replace it with hundreds of millions of (LRT) that will capture the exact same ridership, and operate less frequently. One of the biggest wastes of money in Ontario's history.
 
What a waste of money. Ottawa basically dug up hundreds of millions of dollars worth of infrastructure (BRT) to replace it with hundreds of millions of (LRT) that will capture the exact same ridership, and operate less frequently. One of the biggest wastes of money in Ontario's history.

While this is true regarding the extremities of Ottawa's LRT line, the downtown core is currently a mess of buses at rush hour, and slows the system down significantly. It's also the primary cause of delays across the system, as the number of protests, events and other activities that take place in the capitol create frequent issues.

The bigger point is that while Ottawa had their LINTs imported from the Salzgitter Germany plant, the Citadis Spirit LRTs will be produced at the Hornell plant and assembled in Ottawa at the Maintenance and Storage Facility.
 
While this is true regarding the extremities of Ottawa's LRT line, the downtown core is currently a mess of buses at rush hour, and slows the system down significantly.

It's only partly true, even of the extremities. It would be more accurate to say the stations are being rebuilt. Some could have been reused more cheaply, but they were many years into their lifespan, outdated, and not perceived as very adequate. Most of the running way is simply having tracks laid on it, with little in the way of digging up. There was minimal infrastructure in the downtown where the tunnel is being built, and most of it will remain for buses.

The bus system had little or no growth capacity, and Ottawans rejected the idea of leaving buses for the large majority and building a different LRT line that would serve a small minority. Operating costs will decrease.

Lastly, Ottawa controlled costs in a way that Toronto has never tried to do. The Ottawa project is nearly twice as long as the Scarborough subway extension, costs much less, and will carry far, far more people.
 
Thanks to continued delays in deliveries of the new cars and cold weather the entire 502/503 fleet looks like it was replaced with buses today. Hope that's a one-off, and not a full board period which I believe started on January 3rd. Between the scores of buses on the 504 and the 502/503 replacement, using Presto is going to be a pain. Perhaps TTC riders should consider a class-action against Bombardier for pain and suffering (only half kidding).
 
Thanks to continued delays in deliveries of the new cars and cold weather the entire 502/503 fleet looks like it was replaced with buses today. Hope that's a one-off, and not a full board period which I believe started on January 3rd. Between the scores of buses on the 504 and the 502/503 replacement, using Presto is going to be a pain. Perhaps TTC riders should consider a class-action against Bombardier for pain and suffering (only half kidding).
It's until further notice, as noted on Steve Munro's site:

The 502 Downtowner and 503 Kingston Road routes will be converted to buses to free up streetcars for other routes. Although headways will not change, the scheduled running times will be extended so that buses (and eventually streetcars) will be able to cover their full routes in the time allowed and, in theory, short turns will end. This is especially important for routes which can be functionally useless because they short turn before reaching their markets downtown and on Kingston Road.

Some of the streetcars from 502/503 will shift to 504 King replacing existing bus runs. All of the ALRV service on King will be replaced by CLRVs so that the ALRV fleet is available for the revised 501 schedule.
 
What a waste of money. Ottawa basically dug up hundreds of millions of dollars worth of infrastructure (BRT) to replace it with hundreds of millions of (LRT) that will capture the exact same ridership, and operate less frequently. One of the biggest wastes of money in Ontario's history.

Huh? Most of the expense of Phase 1 of the Confederation Line is building the tunnel under downtown Ottawa, which replaces the dedicated bus lanes. Those lanes had the highest ridership on the entire system, but have the lowest capacity of anywhere on the system. The tunnel is eliminating the bottleneck.

And the only thing that's being replaced in the Transitway is the road itself and the stations (which are insufficient for the LRT Ottawa is planning to build). The ROW, including the trenches, bridges, etc, are all being used.

All in all, the Confederation Line is a huge step forward, and calling it a waste of money is just plain wrong.

It's only partly true, even of the extremities. It would be more accurate to say the stations are being rebuilt. Some could have been reused more cheaply, but they were many years into their lifespan, outdated, and not perceived as very adequate. Most of the running way is simply having tracks laid on it, with little in the way of digging up. There was minimal infrastructure in the downtown where the tunnel is being built, and most of it will remain for buses.

The bus system had little or no growth capacity, and Ottawans rejected the idea of leaving buses for the large majority and building a different LRT line that would serve a small minority. Operating costs will decrease.

Lastly, Ottawa controlled costs in a way that Toronto has never tried to do. The Ottawa project is nearly twice as long as the Scarborough subway extension, costs much less, and will carry far, far more people.

Bang on. I'll add that the bus system was reaching a point where simply adding more buses wasn't going to solve anything. The Transitway through downtown is literally just platoons of buses taking up the entire block moving from block to block through downtown. All adding more buses will do is make everyone's trip through downtown slower. I say this as someone who rode the Transitway to and from downtown every work day for over 2 years.
 
Bang on. I'll add that the bus system was reaching a point where simply adding more buses wasn't going to solve anything. The Transitway through downtown is literally just platoons of buses taking up the entire block moving from block to block through downtown. All adding more buses will do is make everyone's trip through downtown slower. I say this as someone who rode the Transitway to and from downtown every work day for over 2 years.

Just to add, Stage 2 construction http://www.stage2lrt.ca/ will start pretty much right after the Confederation Line is opened. Funding ($3 billion) has already been committed from all levels of government. Once built out in 2022/2023, there will be a pretty connected LRT system, especially for west end riders who will no longer have to transfer at Tunney's.
 
Did it though? Flatcar 158091 is reported as released empty at Toronto yard on Tuesday December 29th. (4415 was on flatcar 156393 which arrived back in Thunder Bay yesterday).

It didn't, and I am very, very curious now to find out what my contact up that way saw loaded on a flat car.

Also, don't forget that it would not be a big deal for them to rig up another flatcar for deliveries. They likely will have to once Bombardier finally pulls the lead out.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
It didn't, and I am very, very curious now to find out what my contact up that way saw loaded on a flat car.
4416 (or 4402) hasn't arrived? Hang on, car 158091 after delivering 4414 on December 14th was back to Thunder Bay, arriving there on December 17th. And then it's released empty at Toronto yard on December 29th. So if not carrying a TTC car - what indeed?

Also, don't forget that it would not be a big deal for them to rig up another flatcar for deliveries. They likely will have to once Bombardier finally pulls the lead out.
I'd think they would need 3 or 4 total carriers soone or later; particularly once they start delivery of the Metrolinx units.
 
I'd think they would need 3 or 4 total carriers soone or later; particularly once they start delivery of the Metrolinx units.

Assuming the Metrolinx units are heading straight to Waterloo, it will be interesting to see how they are routed - through the Weston Tunnel being one very likely option.

- Paul
 
Assuming the Metrolinx units are heading straight to Waterloo, it will be interesting to see how they are routed - through the Weston Tunnel being one very likely option.

- Paul
Could be ship to Cambridge since CP yard/line are there and transfer there for delivery to Waterloo. This way will give CP more shipping fee as well less transferring movement.
 
Could it be a Freedom prototype headed to the test track in Millhaven?

I'll be up that way this weekend - I'll swing by on Sunday.
 
Could it be a Freedom prototype headed to the test track in Millhaven?

I'll be up that way this weekend - I'll swing by on Sunday.
Unlikely, or they wouldn't have released the car in Toronto yard. Though I can't explain what else it could be if it wasn't a TTC vehicle after 4415.
 
What else is the Thunder Bay plant producing now or soon? Is the Eglinton Crosstown being built there? I don't suppose you can run a plant on a trickle of Rockets.
The GO transit coaches are built there. Currently they are working on the new cab cars.

In addition to the 204 TTC streetcars, they make the Flexity Freedom's there - 182 cars for Metrolinx (Eglinton, Finch, Sheppard East, and originally for the SRT upgrade, though Bombardier has indicated that those can be used elsewhere) and 14 cars for Waterloo. (at total of 400 cars).

They also just recently got the contract for an unknown number of 40-metre Flexity units for the Edmonton Valley line, which I assume will be built in Thunder Bay.
 

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