TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[P23]

If this is the case - do the testing up in Thunder Bay and not on the streets of Toronto.



If this is the case - do the testing up in Thunder Bay and not on the streets of Toronto.



If this is the case - do the testing up in Thunder Bay and not on the streets of Toronto.



If this is the case - do the testing at the factory and not in my house.

what exactly are you outraged about? they're going to spend their lifetime in Toronto so they're tested on Toronto's rails. they test them outside of service hours so there is no disruption to regular operation. what's your beef? well actually I figured it out, you just want to whine about stuff.

 

[smallspy]

I think it's pretty clear to anyone with half a brain that the requirements to drive every single production vehicle 600 km is a load of crap. What kind of QC does Bombardier have that we expect each vehicle off the assembly line not to be exactly like the one before it?

And to have the two training cars 4401 and 4402 *still* in use for training is also a load. How many drivers need to be trained that haven't been trained in the MONTHS those two LRV's have been here? Honestly.

Finally, it's an absolute joke that there hasn't been any information released to the public regarding why Bombardier is so far behind in fulfilling the LRV order, strike or no. I'll bet there won't be any penalties and we get shafted and have to wait like 10 years to roll out the entire order. Unbelievable.

/endrant

It must be nice to live in that little, sheltered cocoon that you enjoy.

Unless assembled by machine, mass assembled anything is never exactly like the one before or the one after. They are built by humans, which, by virtue of their being individuals capable of independent thought, are incapable of doing everything precisely the same.

If you go and buy a new car, do you really think that it hasn't been driven for 150 miles or so? One of the last steps of the production process is a "burn in" period, where they will run it for that distance to ensure that nothing comes loose, or at least is within tolerances. Once it is done, they reset the odometer to zero.

The same goes for the streetcars. The last step of the delivery process, prior to the TTC taking possession of the vehicle, is that Bombardier must run it for about 600km on city streets with no failures. Only once it has passed will the TTC sign off of the delivery.

As for training, only about half of the drivers on the system are currently trained on the new cars. Would you rather they pull one of the two cars out of service and use that for training instead?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[rbt]

what exactly are you outraged about? they're going to spend their lifetime in Toronto so they're tested on Toronto's rails. they test them outside of service hours so there is no disruption to regular operation. what's your beef? well actually I figured it out, you just want to whine about stuff.

He would be the first to scream if Toronto had any of the issues that Boston did with their last LRV order.

If anything, lessons learned from other cities is that 600km per car isn't nearly enough.

Heck, even the $100k servers I order have a mandatory burn-in period before putting it into production. It's amazing my how many components become unseated or expose defects within 48 hours of delivery from all server manufacturers. Manufacturer QA doesn't have to be good if they can blame the buyer and get them to buy the replacement. It's also far better to have a component fail when it doesn't matter rather than interrupt production service.

 

[drum118]

If this is the case - do the testing up in Thunder Bay and not on the streets of Toronto.



If this is the case - do the testing up in Thunder Bay and not on the streets of Toronto.



If this is the case - do the testing up in Thunder Bay and not on the streets of Toronto.



If this is the case - do the testing at the factory and not in my house.

Man!!! you have no clue how things work or need to and you want them on that sliver spoon in your mouth.

Testing in one place and the real world where they will operate are 2 different things.

If you want to bitch and whiny, do it about "BOMBARDIER" who is the problem. They are late right across the board on all TTC equipment with problems. TTC isn't the only system having issues with BOMBARDIER. BOMBARDIER is late delivering 59 8 car DD trains to Swiss Federal Railways by 2 years to the point the Swiss are now going to get 3 free trains plus parts. The order had an option of 100 more trains.

 

[salsa]

 

[spider]

If you go and buy a new car, do you really think that it hasn't been driven for 150 miles or so? One of the last steps of the production process is a "burn in" period, where they will run it for that distance to ensure that nothing comes loose, or at least is within tolerances. Once it is done, they reset the odometer to zero.

Yes I actually do believe that my new car has not been driven for 150 miles or so before I accept delivery. Why? Logistics. Think about it, let's assume Oshawa builds a couple of thousand vehicles every day as do other builders in other towns like Oakville or Windsor or Alliston or Cambridge and tests every one of these cars for a 3 or 4 hour period before shipping them out don't you think some one would notice all this traffic? I have spent a lot of time on the roads of these towns and never seen them.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Yes I actually do believe that my new car has not been driven for 150 miles or so before I accept delivery. Why? Logistics. Think about it, let's assume Oshawa builds a couple of thousand vehicles every day as do other builders in other towns like Oakville or Windsor or Alliston or Cambridge and tests every one of these cars for a 3 or 4 hour period before shipping them out don't you think some one would notice all this traffic? I have spent a lot of time on the roads of these towns and never seen them.

They do however that every "n"th vehicle and run it through its paces, sometimes running them until they do breakdown. Sometimes donating every other "n"th vehicle for testing by others.

 

[smallspy]

Yes I actually do believe that my new car has not been driven for 150 miles or so before I accept delivery. Why? Logistics. Think about it, let's assume Oshawa builds a couple of thousand vehicles every day as do other builders in other towns like Oakville or Windsor or Alliston or Cambridge and tests every one of these cars for a 3 or 4 hour period before shipping them out don't you think some one would notice all this traffic? I have spent a lot of time on the roads of these towns and never seen them.

What makes you think that the car actually leaves the property - or even the factory - while it's doing its drive?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[nfitz]

What makes you think that the car actually leaves the property - or even the factory - while it's doing its drive?

The odometer. The one I picked up the other day had 6 km on it. That wouldn't have even got it to the gate and back ...

If Bombardier starts churning out thousands of Flexity's a day, I'm sure we can all agree that the testing distance would be shorter. And if Honda started turning out only one car a month, I'd expect there's to increase ...

Can we move on?

 

[smallspy]

The odometer. The one I picked up the other day had 6 km on it. That wouldn't have even got it to the gate and back ...

You think they don't change the odometer during production? Oh dear.

For the record, there are, for lack of a better term, treadmills in the factories where they test the cars.

But yes, I agree, let's get back to the streetcars.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[nfitz]

You think they don't change the odometer during production? Oh dear.

I believe the subject here was post-production testing - not testing during production. Do I think car manufacturers in Ontario are breaking the law? No, I don't for a minute believe that it would be worth the trouble.

You don't think that Bombardier doesn't also test both during production, and after production on the test track in Thunder Bay? There were posts in another forum weeks before 4304 arrived in Toronto that it was complete, and now on the Thunder Bay test track. The bigger issue perhaps is that there's been no reports of 4305 being complete yet, which means it's unlikely to arrive in Toronto earlier than mid-December, at best.

It remains concerning that Bombardier has yet to hit one vehicle a month, let alone the 3 a month originally promised.

 

[Duck]

It remains concerning that Bombardier has yet to hit one vehicle a month, let alone the 3 a month originally promised.

I know they're not identical, but they do share a lot of common design elements - I'm worried this will bump delivery of the FLEXITY Freedom vehicles that Waterloo Region is due to take delivery of starting Summer 2016. It's only 14 trains, but how will that slot in/overlap with Toronto's deliveries for both the streetcars (Outlook) and Crosstown (Freedom)?

 

[nfitz]

I know they're not identical, but they do share a lot of common design elements - I'm worried this will bump delivery of the FLEXITY Freedom vehicles that Waterloo Region is due to take delivery of starting Summer 2016. It's only 14 trains, but how will that slot in/overlap with Toronto's deliveries for both the streetcars (Outlook) and Crosstown (Freedom)?

The Toronto cars were already schedule to be delivered at 3 a month, or higher, until 2019. Much of the Waterloo, Eglinton, Finch, and Sheppard cars were scheduled to be delivered by then (also at about 3 a month), so presumably they thought that they can actually handle 6 a month. Though how much of that depended on the completion of the delayed TR car delivery being finished. They may not have been counting on the recent purchase of an extra 10 TR trainsets.

 

[Earlscourt_Lad]

View attachment 38012

Saw it on St. Clair earlier today, wb just west of Caledonia, fwiw.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Saw it on Spadina, didn't take any pix.