TTC: Cherry Street reconstruction and streetcar trackage (City of Toronto/TTC, U/C)

[smallspy]

Yes but railroad switches and streetcar switches are completely different. I relly don't think the city or the TTC would want switch stands put in all over the city so that a streetcar driver could manual move a switch.

Yes, you do think that they were all powered and centrally controlled? Because if that's your final answer, you'd be incorrect.

And no, railroad and streetcar switches are not completely different. They are slightly different ways of accomplishing the same thing. There is no need to put switch stands anywhere - in-street switches have existed for well over 100 years, and don't require any infrastructure to be installed above the level of the rails.

Seriously, go check out VAE-Nortrak or HJ Skelton or any of the other rail manufacturers to see what can be done.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Tulse]

This weekend I was driving westbound along Eastern and wanted to turn right onto Sumach. Only at the very last minute did I realize that I would be turning right onto streetcar tracks. Very confusing, and I'm not the only one - shortly afterwards I saw someone actually turn onto them, and follow a streetcar all the way up the street.

The signage here is very poor. The right-of-ways are really not distinguished from the regular roadway, and Toronto drivers are used to seeing tracks in the middle of the street, so that tells them nothing.

I have to think that all it would take to ameliorate things is some clear crosshatching on the pavement where the road and streetcar right-of-way intersect, or even some rumble strips, so that the right-of-way is clearly visually a different thing than the road.

 

[Red October]

The signage here is very poor. The right-of-ways are really not distinguished from the regular roadway, and Toronto drivers are used to seeing tracks in the middle of the street, so that tells them nothing.

I have to think that all it would take to ameliorate things is some clear crosshatching on the pavement where the road and streetcar right-of-way intersect, or even some rumble strips, so that the right-of-way is clearly visually a different thing than the road.

I don't get why they didn't just do this, it's not like it's that expensive to put a bit of red lines on the pavement.

 

[DSC]

Anyone interested in getting off these (more general) diversions and back on thread topic may want to read Steve Munro on Cherry Street. https://stevemunro.ca/2016/11/14/the-travails-of-cherry-street/

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Yes, you do think that they were all powered and centrally controlled? Because if that's your final answer, you'd be incorrect.

And no, railroad and streetcar switches are not completely different. They are slightly different ways of accomplishing the same thing. There is no need to put switch stands anywhere - in-street switches have existed for well over 100 years, and don't require any infrastructure to be installed above the level of the rails.

Seriously, go check out VAE-Nortrak or HJ Skelton or any of the other rail manufacturers to see what can be done.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

The TTC has already said they don't currently have plans to put double balded switches n the streetcar system outside of leslie barns for now. We can talk about it all we want here and that won't make them do it right now.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The signage here is very poor. The right-of-ways are really not distinguished from the regular roadway, and Toronto drivers are used to seeing tracks in the middle of the street, so that tells them nothing.

I have to think that all it would take to ameliorate things is some clear crosshatching on the pavement where the road and streetcar right-of-way intersect, or even some rumble strips, so that the right-of-way is clearly visually a different thing than the road.

The funny thing is we have the correct sign for it but the city doesn't want to use it for some reason.

 

[smallspy]

The TTC has already said they don't currently have plans to put double balded switches n the streetcar system outside of leslie barns for now. We can talk about it all we want here and that won't make them do it right now.

They've never said that, and in fact they've recently replaced one switch - trailing eastbound College at Lansdowne - with a new one of a different design (and double-bladed to boot) as a test.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

They've never said that, and in fact they've recently replaced one switch - trailing eastbound College at Lansdowne - with a new one of a different design (and double-bladed to boot) as a test.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

My bad then I was just going by something that one of the employees at Leslie barns said on doors open.

 

[Tulse]

I went to a community meeting on Wednesday night run by the TTC regarding the screeching noise made by the streetcars at the Sumach turn for the Cherry line. Apparently some folks in the area have complained about it, to the point where the TTC is replacing the streetcars with WheelTrans buses before 7am and after 10pm.

The meeting at the local Y was pretty well attended (about 30-40 people), despite not being well-advertised. (I got the sense that the meeting had originally been intended only for those who were having issues with the noise, and not the general community). There were several residents there who had raised the noise issue with the TTC, and they talked about the issue in the extensive Q&A session. Perhaps I'm biased (I am delighted with the new line, and don't live near the curve), but I wasn't clear how much the noise is actually out of line with the rest of what the city experiences, and how much this is simply condo owners upset that they now have urban sounds intruding their units.

(If I'm honest, the couple that seemed to be leading this fight really rubbed me the wrong way. But I'll also note that I take that car every day to work and back, and from in the car the noise it makes doesn't seem particularly loud to me compared to similar streetcar lines.)

I was surprised, however, to see several people from the mobility-impaired community out at the meeting, talking about how important the Flexities on the line are for their ability to get out of the neighbourhood. And a few other local residents praised the service as well.

It sounds like the TTC is pinning its hopes on the new Flexities with automatic lubrication as a way to mitigate the sound. There won't be enough to make a difference running on the 514 until Q2 at the earliest (presuming the delivery timelines hold...). They apparently are looking into other possible mitigation approaches as well, but they didn't seem sanguine about any of these other alternatives.

I have to admit I'm surprised that there isn't more engineering for this issue, as it must be a common complaint with streetcars wherever they are used. While I doubt anything can reasonably be retrofitted to the new Flexities (much less the older fleet), I would have thought that some sort of vibration damper on the wheels might at least reduce the volume and pitch of such noises.

 

[Voltz]

There was a City News video of the meeting and the curve on last night.

http://www.citynews.ca/2016/11/16/v...ce-conerns-over-ear-piercing-streetcar-noise/

 

[smallspy]

The noise at the curves isn't any better or worse than any other curves on the system. It seems to me that the issue is that there are now a set of curves, and cars using them, where there never have been (in recent memory).

I don't think that it's really a "suck it up, buttercup" situation, but it does have to be explained to these people that this is the price of progress. They are getting vastly improved transit service to the neighbourhood - the current arrangement to me is not sustainable going forward, and it almost seems like the alternate is that they stop running 514 cars after 10pm, which would be a detriment.

At least they will get used to it eventually.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The noise at the curves isn't any better or worse than any other curves on the system. It seems to me that the issue is that there are now a set of curves, and cars using them, where there never have been (in recent memory).

I don't think that it's really a "suck it up, buttercup" situation, but it does have to be explained to these people that this is the price of progress. They are getting vastly improved transit service to the neighbourhood - the current arrangement to me is not sustainable going forward, and it almost seems like the alternate is that they stop running 514 cars after 10pm, which would be a detriment.

At least they will get used to it eventually.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Yup it;s the age old thing with moving in near to a railroad line it was there before you and in some cases your house. It's one of those things you have to get used to in living in the city. If you want peace and quite all the time them go and live on the island or outside the city.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The noise at the curves isn't any better or worse than any other curves on the system. .

An absolute statement like that needs some supporting evidence.

At the Neville Park loop, for example, they have a constant water stream running down the tracks, presumably to reduce the sound. http://torontoist.com/2009/07/ask_torontoist_the_squeaky_wheel/

Does this new loop have the water system? Or, are they relying on some new auto-lube system on the rare as hen's teeth Flexicities?

 

[Admiral Beez]

The signage here is very poor. The right-of-ways are really not distinguished from the regular roadway, and Toronto drivers are used to seeing tracks in the middle of the street, so that tells them nothing.

I have to think that all it would take to ameliorate things is some clear crosshatching on the pavement where the road and streetcar right-of-way intersect, or even some rumble strips, so that the right-of-way is clearly visually a different thing than the road.

Retractable bollards would fix the issue forever. They could drop when a firetruck goes by as well.

 

[junctionist]

Yup it;s the age old thing with moving in near to a railroad line it was there before you and in some cases your house. It's one of those things you have to get used to in living in the city. If you want peace and quite all the time them go and live on the island or outside the city.

We're talking about new infrastructure built next to existing residences, not the other way around.