TTC: Bloor Danforth Line 2 West Extension(s)

[Rainforest]

The building of the lines are based on ridership and density as well long range. Been flip flopping on a few
Hurontario,
Dundas,
Eglinton,
Burnhamthrope with an issue to connect to Islington or Kipling,
Derry Rd
Dixie Rd
Southdown/Erin Mills
Britannia

I can see Eglinton Crosstown Line ending up at Square One.

Hurontario is under construction already.

Eglinton looks like a good next candidate. With Eg West being tunneled / elevated between Mt Dennis and Renforth, it will be overbuilt for its original scope. But if it gets another branch running into Mississauga, then the tunnel kind of makes sense for the combined high frequency of the two branches.

 

[jcam]

TTC or more like the councilors on the Commission starting back in 2010 had the chance to extend the line to Cloverdale with the ward councilor who was chair and vice chair a number of times and was shot down on his motion to extend the line the. He became an MPP as he thought he had a better chance at Queen Park to get the extension build and sadly it never happen.

Everyone lost with the building of the Regional where it is. 905's have to spend 7 plus minutes walking from terminal to terminal base on their health and able to walk. A number of 90's riders are getting off at a TTC stop on Dundas or on to get around this extra walking time.

If the line was built, TTC would finally be able to fix the bus terminal issues that has existed for a few decades as it was build underside from day one. There is no room for the terminal to expand to meet future growth of GO and Mississauga and Cloverdale would had the space to do down the road.

GO buses would do a quick on/off from the 427 if the bus was going to/from Union Station in place of the plan using Kipling route now if and when that route surface.

With the Cloverdale station in place, all transit systems currently using Kipling would see cost saving. The current deadheading would be remove to allow for better headway using the current number of buses or removing a bus or 2 because there was too much extra time for layover.

Redevelopment of the Cloverdale area would see construction sooner as well being faster to get things into the ground.

The BRT is all Metrolinx wants to invested into as they are not a strong supporter of LRT. The Dundas BRT will not be a true one west of Erindale Station Rd as ridership is non existing and no need for a ROW to the point the buses will be express buses. Even though Oakville has an BRT on there master plan on Dundas for over 20 years, they have fail to built density on it and have backtrack on the BRT vision. Mississauga has run service into Oakville with poor results and a huge poor cost recovery ratio. Both Oakville and Burlington want Halton Region to look after transit as well fund it. With Halton running transit, it will be no different to what York, Durham and Waterloo has done.

There are 2 current issues facing TTC west and that is how to get to the new subway yard on the south side of the CP corridor if that yard is to be built as well how do you get pass that condo to the west of the station?? TTC cannot use CP ROW as plan, as that has been taken over by Metrolinx for Milton expansion.

Any extension of Line 2 into Mississauga has to be along Dundas to Dixie or pushing it to Hurontario St at best. That cannot happen until there is density on Dundas that hasn't existed at all as its a blight. The BRT may kick start the change, but going to be a long process to get ridership up to an LRT level, let alone subway numbers to have one.

I have pushed for both a subway extension to Cloverdale and LRT from there to Erindale for over a decade. In 2005, I said to council, there needs to be 7 LRT lines in Mississauga with Dundas being one of them. Councilors including the mayor said to me the finally understand where I was taking the transit system in Mississauga and it was now up to them to do it. sadly, very little has change since them to build a better system, but not taking the model spite from 11% to 35% by now. Only around 15% these days outside of COVID.

I would think you could build a TTC fly-under the CP tracks coming right out of the station, and then into the Obico lands, alongside the Metrolinx-owned N/S rail corridor. I would think you'd then tunnel on from the south end of the yard to make it to Sherway. Metrolinx doesn't need all of that N/S ROW width, so if they ever extended streetcar tracks along Queensway, they could spur off Queensway onto that rail ROW to service a western streetcar barn on a multi-mode Obico site (maybe a 9th bus garage too).

 

[Rainforest]

A high-speed connection between Square One and Toronto Downtown would be very well used. Unfortunately the Galt sub / Milton GO will not be employed for that purpose, as it is the CP mainline and that traffic will not be redirected in the foreseeable future.

What are the other options?

1a. The Line 2 West extension, as the thread title says. Straightforward, but not really high-speed, riders going from Square One to Toronto Downtown will have to endure the Line 2 milk run with stops every 700 m, and then transfer at St George.

1b. A variation of that: Line 2 extension at first, but built in such a way that the segments can be disconnected at Kipling or at Cloverdale. Later, a new express subway line (stops every 2-4 km) added between Cloverdale and the downtown, and the Square One segment gets connected to that new line, while Line 2 terminates at Cloverdale. This is more expensive than 1a, but will add a large amount of new capacity into Toronto Downtown, and serve both Mississauga and South Etobicoke.

2. A tunneled branch off the Lakeshore West GO line. Sounds crazy at first, but actually will only require a 5-km long tunnel from Square One to the southern corner of the Lakeview Golf Course (between Dixie and Ogden). That's shorter than the Line 2 West extension, and the trip between Square One and Toronto Downtown using that connection should take no more than 30 min. The drawbacks are the space taken from the Lakeshore West corridor, and having few stops within Mississauga other than Square One.

3. An extension of Ontario Line westwards, eventually reaching Square One. That extension can have more stops and provide better local connections than a GO branch, but more stops will mean a longer travel time. And, there are concerns regarding the Ontario Line capacity. The Exhibition terminus of OL should play an important role in intersepting the GO riders and relieving the Union station. But if OL gets extended and the trains arrive to the Exhibition station being full, then few GO riders will want to transfer there.

 

[duffo]

A high-speed connection between Square One and Toronto Downtown would be very well used. Unfortunately the Galt sub / Milton GO will not be employed for that purpose, as it is the CP mainline and that traffic will not be redirected in the foreseeable future.

What are the other options?

1a. The Line 2 West extension, as the thread title says. Straightforward, but not really high-speed, riders going from Square One to Toronto Downtown will have to endure the Line 2 milk run with stops every 700 m, and then transfer at St George.

1b. A variation of that: Line 2 extension at first, but built in such a way that the segments can be disconnected at Kipling or at Cloverdale. Later, a new express subway line (stops every 2-4 km) added between Cloverdale and the downtown, and the Square One segment gets connected to that new line, while Line 2 terminates at Cloverdale. This is more expensive than 1a, but will add a large amount of new capacity into Toronto Downtown, and serve both Mississauga and South Etobicoke.

2. A tunneled branch off the Lakeshore West GO line. Sounds crazy at first, but actually will only require a 5-km long tunnel from Square One to the southern corner of the Lakeview Golf Course (between Dixie and Ogden). That's shorter than the Line 2 West extension, and the trip between Square One and Toronto Downtown using that connection should take no more than 30 min. The drawbacks are the space taken from the Lakeshore West corridor, and having few stops within Mississauga other than Square One.

3. An extension of Ontario Line westwards, eventually reaching Square One. That extension can have more stops and provide better local connections than a GO branch, but more stops will mean a longer travel time. And, there are concerns regarding the Ontario Line capacity. The Exhibition terminus of OL should play an important role in intersepting the GO riders and relieving the Union station. But if OL gets extended and the trains arrive to the Exhibition station being full, then few GO riders will want to transfer there.

4. 17km branch of the Kitchener line along the 401/403 ROW?

 

[Bureaucromancer]

4. 17km branch of the Kitchener line along the 401/403 ROW?
View attachment 355931

Redirect that through the airport and I start to see a real case for it...

 

[Rainforest]

4. 17km branch of the Kitchener line along the 401/403 ROW?
View attachment 355931

Maybe. The only disadvantage is that this route is considerably longer than any other option, and that will affect the travel time and the # of trains needed.

But if this route is much easier to build, being almost entirely in the highways corridors, then possibly yes.

 

[boilwater]

4. 17km branch of the Kitchener line along the 401/403 ROW?
View attachment 355931

5. Extend UP Express to sq1? elevated from pearson following the same route as the one being considered for the eglinton west lrt airport connection; then follow same highway route as duffo suggested. You get a sq1 to airport direct connection and while the route would be physically longer than a kitchener line branch, might be able to make up some of the time with the fewer stops on the up express

 

[Bureaucromancer]

The more I look at this the more I think that it might actually be a rather convenient, both practically and politically, path to avoiding the shutdown a rail conversion of the Transitway would entail.

 

[H4F33Z]

4. 17km branch of the Kitchener line along the 401/403 ROW?
View attachment 355931

At first glance, this idea looked dumb but it's not terrible. The highway corridors are actually quite wide. On the 401, you'd need to remove just one lane in each direction, and on the 403, just the HOV lane and it would fit pretty well. The problem is just the clearance on overpasses and signs, also flyovers will be required. I do like the UP Express idea to reduce necessary clearance.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

It definitely doesn't come off as elegantly if you do it this way, but I still don't hate it...

 

[nfitz]

A high-speed connection between Square One and Toronto Downtown would be very well used. Unfortunately the Galt sub / Milton GO will not be employed for that purpose, as it is the CP mainline and that traffic will not be redirected in the foreseeable future.

With the pre-election announcement about the feds funding RER-service on the Milton line, that would make GO building their long-planned spur to Square One from somewhere east of Cooksville more likely.

 

[drum118]

5. Extend UP Express to sq1? elevated from pearson following the same route as the one being considered for the eglinton west lrt airport connection; then follow same highway route as duffo suggested. You get a sq1 to airport direct connection and while the route would be physically longer than a kitchener line branch, might be able to make up some of the time with the fewer stops on the up express

In someway that is funny as there was talk that the current Airport Mover would be partly rebuilt to allow the line to go to Renforth since it could handle more than 2 trains.

As for the idea of using the 401, I put that Question to MTO along time ago where the thought of putting an elevated line down the center of 401 from Milton to Pickering. Main issue is the height of the line as it will pass under the flight path of planes landing as well the height to be above the traffic on the 401. They like the idea, but as far as we got over a decade ago.

Been too long for me in calling for quality service from Sq One to the Airport every 15 minutes. That only happen when 107 came into service.

It definitely doesn't come off as elegantly if you do it this way, but I still don't hate it...
View attachment 355982

Don't support that route and it will never fly by others powers to be.

The route from the airport has been chosen for LRT to Renforth subject to where the Airport Transit Hub is located.

Would run the line by the current Mississauga Transitway-403 to new location of the new transit hub

 

[drum118]

A high-speed connection between Square One and Toronto Downtown would be very well used. Unfortunately the Galt sub / Milton GO will not be employed for that purpose, as it is the CP mainline and that traffic will not be redirected in the foreseeable future.

What are the other options?

1a. The Line 2 West extension, as the thread title says. Straightforward, but not really high-speed, riders going from Square One to Toronto Downtown will have to endure the Line 2 milk run with stops every 700 m, and then transfer at St George.

1b. A variation of that: Line 2 extension at first, but built in such a way that the segments can be disconnected at Kipling or at Cloverdale. Later, a new express subway line (stops every 2-4 km) added between Cloverdale and the downtown, and the Square One segment gets connected to that new line, while Line 2 terminates at Cloverdale. This is more expensive than 1a, but will add a large amount of new capacity into Toronto Downtown, and serve both Mississauga and South Etobicoke.

2. A tunneled branch off the Lakeshore West GO line. Sounds crazy at first, but actually will only require a 5-km long tunnel from Square One to the southern corner of the Lakeview Golf Course (between Dixie and Ogden). That's shorter than the Line 2 West extension, and the trip between Square One and Toronto Downtown using that connection should take no more than 30 min. The drawbacks are the space taken from the Lakeshore West corridor, and having few stops within Mississauga other than Square One.

3. An extension of Ontario Line westwards, eventually reaching Square One. That extension can have more stops and provide better local connections than a GO branch, but more stops will mean a longer travel time. And, there are concerns regarding the Ontario Line capacity. The Exhibition terminus of OL should play an important role in intersepting the GO riders and relieving the Union station. But if OL gets extended and the trains arrive to the Exhibition station being full, then few GO riders will want to transfer there.

We have talked about this a number of times over the years.

My options have been having a Tram-Train connecting to the Hurontario Line if and when CP allows overhead. Most likely it will be battery power now. Enough room to run the line to Hurontario at Cooksville on the east side as your connection point.

Another option is to continue that Tram-Train back to CP line at the 403 using the ROW to do it. Don't need long trains to do it.

Another option is to tunnel to Sq One with the line coming off CP at Dundas. You could continue the line As the Tram-Train

 

[turini2]

Given the future Western yard, they'll be a very limited window in which an extension could conceivably be developed and delivered as part of/related to the project - given that "out of service" tracks are usually built with a different level of service/speed in mind to regular tracks. It would be very expensive/disruptive to install junctions as part of an extension in future!

Cloverdale Mall/relevant developers/local councillors and MPPs could work together to help deliver a single station extension, but they'd have to move fast at the relevant time.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Idk How much sense it makes to go towards Sherway when all this development is happening along Dundas West.. if extended along Dundas West and West Mall, Mississauga can decide whether they want to extend it with BRT/LRT in the future.

I think it may make more sense to have a N/S line (possible Finch West LRT extension) parallel to HWY427 from Pearson to Sherway and then East along Queensway.

A western extension would provide coverage of Dundas West with a Shorncliffe station.

There is significant residential growth projected for the area surrounding Sherway Gardens. A southern extension there would jump-start that.