TTC: Bloor Danforth Line 2 West Extension(s)

[Hopkins123]

I'm very skeptical of anyone saying a subway extension is cheaper than above rail.

Tunneling is always much more expensive than laying down some tracks.

Perhaps cheaper if it's a short extension, but looking at per KM basis and the best bang for your buck im doubtful.

That's the thing though, it doesn't have to be tunneled:



That's it on an elevated guideway with a Yorkdale-style pedestrian bridge connecting to the mall and MT/MiWay bus terminal in what is now the Honeydale parking lot. It can bridge over the Milton corridor and cross the Hwy 427 at-grade.

Elevated could cost as low as $170 million per kilometre, so saying that an extension to Sherway would cost around $1 billion is more than a reasonable expectation.

 

[cplchanb]

That's the thing though, it doesn't have to be tunneled:



That's it on an elevated guideway with a Yorkdale-style pedestrian bridge connecting to the mall and MT/MiWay bus terminal in what is now the Honeydale parking lot. It can bridge over the Milton corridor and cross the Hwy 427 at-grade.

Elevated could cost as low as $170 million per kilometre, so saying that an extension to Sherway would cost around $1 billion is more than a reasonable expectation.

Now now mind your tongue! The term ELEVATED is a dirty word here in Toronto. To many, that word equates to "eyesore" or locked up development. Please refrain from
mentioning elevated rail ever again.









Hope you caught the sarcasm....

 

[Adjei]

Didn't Stintz once say that elevated transit wasn't rapid transit? And this was someone who was chair of the TTC...

 

[cplchanb]

Didn't Stintz once say that elevated transit wasn't rapid transit? And this was someone who was chair of the TTC...

Shes politician first, chair second....we all know that most politicians are wolves in sheeps' clothing who shed crocodile tears

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'm very skeptical of anyone saying a subway extension is cheaper than above rail.

Tunneling is always much more expensive than laying down some tracks.

Perhaps cheaper if its a short extension, but looking at per KM basis and the best bang for your buck im doubtful.

Very true and I think the rail line would be better simple because it could move more people.

That's the thing though, it doesn't have to be tunneled:



That's it on an elevated guideway with a Yorkdale-style pedestrian bridge connecting to the mall and MT/MiWay bus terminal in what is now the Honeydale parking lot. It can bridge over the Milton corridor and cross the Hwy 427 at-grade.

Elevated could cost as low as $170 million per kilometre, so saying that an extension to Sherway would cost around $1 billion is more than a reasonable expectation.

IMO, once you get past the 427 it's much easier to move to Mississauga. And I think there should be a yard at Honeydale.

 

[gweed123]

That's the thing though, it doesn't have to be tunneled:

That's it on an elevated guideway with a Yorkdale-style pedestrian bridge connecting to the mall and MT/MiWay bus terminal in what is now the Honeydale parking lot. It can bridge over the Milton corridor and cross the Hwy 427 at-grade.

Elevated could cost as low as $170 million per kilometre, so saying that an extension to Sherway would cost around $1 billion is more than a reasonable expectation.

I hadn't actually considered elevated before, but it's an interesting option. I had just assumed that it would dip slightly, and the natural grade drop in that location would have provided the depth necessary. Like Eglinton East though, this is certainly a good spot for elevated, given the industrial/commercial nature of the area.

One thing that I haven't heard many people mention here but I think also makes sense is moving Kipling GO further west to this location. That way you create an easy transfer point with even better highway access than Kipling. As a station name, I think "Etobicoke Gateway" has a nice ring to it.

 

[BurlOak]

The next station after Kipling should definitely be directly at East Mall Cres and Dundas, but in doing so doesn't mean that the line couldn't veer down to West Mall and Queensway thereafter. Like this:



The best thing about this alignment is that it could be elevated the majority of the way, saving costs from no tunneling the ROW.

Any suggestion of elevated transit will likely be the best option. Somehow I sense that the elevation of 427 at the railway tracks is much higher than the railway. Thus, the subway would have to be elevated about 7.2m (rail clearance) + 1.5m (railway beams) + 0.4m (deck and pavement) + 5.1m (clearance above 427) + 2.5m (superstructure depth for a likely longer span bridge over the 427) = 16.7m above the rail tracks (i.e. ground level).
If it crossed closer to Dundas, it would be only about 5.1m + 2.5m = 7.6m above 427 (i.e. ground level near Dundas), and then 7.2m + 1.5m + 0.4m = 9.1m (i.e. an additional 1.5m) above the railway tracks.

So it's decided. If you only want to stay East of 427, then go at-grade just on the north side of the rail corridor to Honeydale. If you want to go beyond 427, try to cross the 427 closer to Dundas and then head to Sherway. (then back up the east side of Etobicoke Creek if you want to continue along Dundas into Mississauga in the future).

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

So it's decided. If you only want to stay East of 427, then go at-grade just on the north side of the rail corridor to Honeydale. If you want to go beyond 427, try to cross the 427 closer to Dundas and then head to Sherway. (then back up the east side of Etobicoke Creek if you want to continue along Dundas into Mississauga in the future).

I just don't know why the TTC can't line up a bunch of projects that require a TBM. Take the TBMs for the Relief Line afterwards and move them around for a bunch of short bits: extending Line 5 under Weston Road, extending Line 4/implementing Sheppard East LRT under the 404, other future-proofed pieces.

 

[smallspy]

I just don't know why the TTC can't line up a bunch of projects that require a TBM. Take the TBMs for the Relief Line afterwards and move them around for a bunch of short bits: extending Line 5 under Weston Road, extending Line 4/implementing Sheppard East LRT under the 404, other future-proofed pieces.

TBMs are such a small total portion of the cost of any of the projects that it makes more sense for them to purchase newer - and thus, more efficient - machinery every time.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[BurlOak]

I just don't know why the TTC can't line up a bunch of projects that require a TBM. Take the TBMs for the Relief Line afterwards and move them around for a bunch of short bits: extending Line 5 under Weston Road, extending Line 4/implementing Sheppard East LRT under the 404, other future-proofed pieces.

Montreal announced in 2015 that they would explore the Réseau électrique métropolitain (REM). This is a 67km, 24 station network utilizing rail corridors and elevation. The cost was pegged at $5.5B ($82M/km). 2016, the EA is done and it has gone to a call for proposals, with construction expected to start in spring 2017. This is fully grade separated transit.

Toronto defeated Ford on transit in 2012 and Finch LRT has just gone for proposals with work expected to start in mid 2017. Cost is about $100M/km for an on street LRT (streetcar?)

Instead of finding ways to drag things out and drive up costs, Toronto needs to find a way of creating affordable grade-separated transit in a short period of time.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

TBMs are such a small total portion of the cost of any of the projects that it makes more sense for them to purchase newer - and thus, more efficient - machinery every time.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

I don't know that it would make sense for smaller drives, though. What I'm talking about is small specific areas where tunneling is required, but otherwise cut-and-cover is preferred for the rest of the project.

 

[smallspy]

Montreal announced in 2015 that they would explore the Réseau électrique métropolitain (REM). This is a 67km, 24 station network utilizing rail corridors and elevation. The cost was pegged at $5.5B ($82M/km). 2016, the EA is done and it has gone to a call for proposals, with construction expected to start in spring 2017. This is fully grade separated transit.

Of course, a very healthy proportion of the line is already constructed as a rail facility, and thus the construction costs are going to be quite a bit lower there than when building on a greenfield alignment. Nor does it include vehicles.

I don't know that it would make sense for smaller drives, though. What I'm talking about is small specific areas where tunneling is required, but otherwise cut-and-cover is preferred for the rest of the project.

In that case, they will mine the tunnel rather than purchase a TBM. It takes a bit longer, but it saves on the cost of machinery.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[interchange42]

Request for qualifications issued for the Kipling Bus Terminal
TORONTO, Nov. 30, 2016 /CNW/ - Infrastructure Ontario (IO) and Metrolinx have issued a Request for Qualifications (RFQ) for interested parties to design, build and finance the Kipling Bus Terminal project.

The RFQ outlines the scope of work required, which includes:

• An elevated pedestrian bridge to connect the pedestrian entrance to the new bus terminal building and rail platforms
• A new pedestrian underground tunnel from the new bus terminal to the existing building
• A new service building incorporating main public entrance to the station with electrical and mechanical service rooms for the site
• Renovations and expansion to the existing GO station building, which will include vehicular, bicycle and pedestrian access
• A new bus terminal for MiWay and GO Transit

The RFQ is the first step in the procurement process to select a team to deliver the project. IO and Metrolinx will evaluate submissions to prequalify project teams with the relevant design and construction experience. Teams that qualify will be invited to respond to a request for proposals in spring 2017. Interested companies must register with www.merx.com to download the RFQ.

Work on the Kipling Bus Terminal project is part of a larger, system-wide plan to improve overall GO Transit service, including the delivery of GO Regional Express Rail by 2024-25. To support transit improvements, Metrolinx will be undertaking major infrastructure upgrades, including additional tracks, GO station modifications, improved rail crossings, required systems for electrification, and new locomotives and train control systems to enable more frequent service.

Ontario is making the largest infrastructure investment in hospitals, schools, public transit, roads and bridges in the province's history. To learn more about what's happening in your community, go to Ontario.ca/BuildON.

Quick Facts:

• The GO Regional Express Rail program represents a historic investment in GO Transit that will provide faster, more frequent and convenient transit service across the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area, including introducing electrification of core segments of the network by 2024-25.
• Infrastructure Ontario, in collaboration with Metrolinx, is leading the procurement of the Kipling Bus Terminal project.
• The project is being delivered using IO's Alternative Financing and Procurement model, an innovative way of financing and procuring large, complex public infrastructure projects, with a track record of being 98 per cent on budget to date.

Quotes:

"The Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area is expected to be home to nearly 10 million people by 2041. This announcement for the Kipling GO bus terminal is another step forward in delivering more GO service. This means you will have access to faster service and shorter wait times – so that you can spend more time with your family and friends"
Steven Del Duca, Minister of Transportation

"Ontario is committed to making infrastructure investments that will give people new and better travel options, with faster and more frequent service. Moving people to the places they work, live and play is key to growing our economy and helping them in their everyday lives."
Bob Chiarelli, Minister of Infrastructure

"With this new station, Metrolinx is moving forward with creating an inter-regional mobility hub that will provide residents of Mississauga and Toronto improved connections to regional transit systems, MiWay, TTC and GO Transit, which will reduce travel times and get people where they need to go faster and more efficiently."
Bruce McCuaig, President and CEO, Metrolinx

"IO is proud to partner with Metrolinx and help deliver important early works projects as part of GO Transit's expansion plans."
Ehren Cory, Divisional President, Project Delivery, Infrastructure Ontario

 

[W. K. Lis]

But will there be a discount when transferring from the GO train to the TTC system and vice-versa? That's the real importance for having the physical infrastructure.

 

[crs1026]

More Quotes:

" This investment in better transit will make a marvellous Farmers' Market when Line 2 is extended to Cloverdale in 10-15 years"
crs1026, UT Contributor, Transportation and Infrastructure Forum

- Paul