TTC: Automatic Train Control and Subway Platform Screen Doors

[mdrejhon]

Anecdotally, I've heard of a cute story (a bit more than a decade ago though). Not the exact wording, but the gist.

[Condo in the $100s]

"Mommy! My piggy bank has enough to buy that condo you wanted!"

 

[Northern Light]

So....

Councillor Brad Bradford did an op-ed in The Sun on the virtues of the increase in the City Building Fund.

BRADFORD: Tough choices need to be made

The only constant in Toronto is change.

torontosun.com

In said article.......he says:

"It is about paying for the real things that Toronto needs: new subway trains for Line 1 and Line 2, new buses, installing an upgraded and more reliable signal system on Line 2, ......."

That is not in any of the public TTC plans I'm aware of.........which currently show a rebuild of the T1s and legacy signalling for the new SSE.

The new capital budget report is due imminently for a Dec 16 TTC mtg.

However, there is currently a placeholder report.

I have flagged this discrepancy to the Councillor, and await an answer.

 

[north-of-anything]

I wouldn't trust everything you read in the tabloids.

 

[Northern Light]

I wouldn't trust everything you read in the tabloids.

I don't; and don't read The Sun either; but I do read the Mayor's Twitter Account; and I followed the links.

The source, in this case, isn't The Sun, its Brad Bradford, its his copy, and he's on Budget, Executive and TTC.

So it could just be a slip up...............but I will be eyeballing the TTC Capital budget when it drops, probably on Friday.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I do think the TTCs latest plan changes for Line 2 are a mistake (Removing ATC and new trains), which I imagine came from pressures to reduce costs.

I wonder if this new cash from Tory's initiative will change the TTCs tune back to one of proper line maintenance. If you want to cut costs there are probably better places to do it (limit platform doors to only the busiest stations, etc.).

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

One thing about ATC is that once it's in we should be set for a pretty long time, it is expensive but can enable some very nice things such as single-tracking around issues etc

No, it can't as of right now the power is supplied to both tracks at the same time there is no separation of the power from one side to the other. In order to do something as you suggest they would have to upgrade the power systems to be able to do it

 

[M II A II R II K]

So they say they'll be able to run more trains with ATC. So they must already have those extra trains but can't run all of them at the same time.

 

[AHK]

So they say they'll be able to run more trains with ATC. So they must already have those extra trains but can't run all of them at the same time.

Or, for the same number of trains, operate them more quickly, with faster turn-arounds. The major bottleneck on the Yonge / Spadina line is the throughput at the Bloor / Yonge station. With dynamic block lengths available from ATC, the lag between one train leaving and the next one arriving should be reduced, with the faster arrival of the next train having a secondary improvement in the subsequent dwell time as well (not as many people waiting to get on). So the same number of trains could make more trips.

Kind of like the technology used in Montreal's Expo 67 mini-rail system with its automated, driverless trains that would progressively slow down and pull up to the one in front of it if the one in front had yet to leave the station.

Only 53 plus years later.....

 

[Northern Light]

As of this writing, ATC is now enabled on another section of Line 1; from St. Patrick to Queen.

The Line is now ATC from Vaughan to Queen.

As per this tweet:

 

[Coolstar]

So according to this Metrolinx document on Subway Station design released back in November, it looks like all new subway stations will come with Platform Screen Doors. Not just the Ontario Line.

Link:

http://www.gosite.ca/engineering_public/DesignStandards/November%202020_DS-09%20Subway%20Station%20Architecture%20Design%20Standard%20-%20Final%20Draft%20r0.pdf

 

[north-of-anything]

So, when will we be getting platform screen doors on Line 1's downtown U?

 

[Richard White]

So, when will we be getting platform screen doors on Line 1's downtown U?

Likely never. It has to do with the original design of the stations

Even when they extended the Jubilee Line in London they only put platform edge doors on the extension without retrofitting the line. This was because of the station design.

Toronto stations are not designed to work with platform edge doors and one of the many reasons is ventilation. A Lot of the ventilation is done via fans just off the platform in the tunnel.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Likely never. It has to do with the original design of the stations

Even when they extended the Jubilee Line in London they only put platform edge doors on the extension without retrofitting the line. This was because of the station design.

Toronto stations are not designed to work with platform edge doors and one of the many reasons is ventilation. A Lot of the ventilation is done via fans just off the platform in the tunnel.

Who says they have to be full height? They can be half height or less.

From link.

From link.

As for ventilation, they can use screen doors.

And why should they open horizontally? They could open vertically...

 

[Northern Light]

So, when will we be getting platform screen doors on Line 1's downtown U?

Its coming..........it'll be awhile yet..........but I'd be very surprised if you didn't see them as part of the Y-B overhaul.

The industry is being consulted (or have been) about pilots.

 

[Johnny Au]

Even with automatic platform screen doors, the Shanghai Metro employs someone who waves a green flag to signal when the train can leave the station for some stations.

See the last few minutes of this video for example: