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TTC: Automatic Train Control and Subway Platform Screen Doors

rbt said:
Vancouver has an advanced intrusion detection system, but that's part of the stations and sensors at track level, not the trains. I don't know how Vancouver trains react if you tossed a box at the front of the train as they entered the station.
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Not sure. I do know that when it snows the system is not reliable so they have to bring more staff in, either in the stations or on the trains themselves to override the system.
 
W. K. Lis said:
While I don't really care if the trains meet a rat in the tunnels, I'm sure there are other rodents where a driver may have to take over driving the train. Whether heavy rail, light rail, or some other ATC train.
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Lol

That video reminds me of this service advisory that I saw a few years ago.

[video=youtube_share;KUz_t5Ac_Jk]http://youtu.be/KUz_t5Ac_Jk[/video]
 
Rosie DiManno on barriers, from the Star:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/11/17/arguments_for_subway_barriers_go_nowhere_dimanno.html

She missed the point - it shouldn't be there to prevent suicides (which is an ancillary benefit) - it should be there to a) prevent suicides from mucking up the system, b) sparing operators from the traumatic experience of operating a vehicle that hit and kill said individuals and c) sparing cleanup crew from the same. Forget about trying to put a dollar figure on the lives of an individual who got killed - put a dollar figure on the time/productivity lost due to the delay said suicide attempts inflicted instead.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Rosie DiManno on barriers, from the Star:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/11/17/arguments_for_subway_barriers_go_nowhere_dimanno.html

She missed the point - it shouldn't be there to prevent suicides (which is an ancillary benefit) - it should be there to a) prevent suicides from mucking up the system, b) sparing operators from the traumatic experience of operating a vehicle that hit and kill said individuals and c) sparing cleanup crew from the same. Forget about trying to put a dollar figure on the lives of an individual who got killed - put a dollar figure on the time/productivity lost due to the delay said suicide attempts inflicted instead. AoD
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All true but I think her point was that there are other things the TTC could (and should) spend money on and that maybe it is a better use of scarce money to do other things first. Though suicide is awful and costly for many reasons, I have never seen research that shows that if one makes it difficult in location A people will not just move to location B. (It is now 'impossible' to jump over the Bloor viaduct, has the number of jumping suicide attempts in Toronto declined?)
Yes, I know that platform doors are not only to stop suicides and that the savings from fewer 'smoke at track level" alerts needs to be factored in too - having doors will reduce, if not eliminate, garbage at track level. Again, I have never seen figures showing % of these caused by garbage as opposed to equipment - wiring - problems.
 
DSC said:
All true but I think her point was that there are other things the TTC could (and should) spend money on and that maybe it is a better use of scarce money to do other things first. Though suicide is awful and costly for many reasons, I have never seen research that shows that if one makes it difficult in location A people will not just move to location B. (It is now 'impossible' to jump over the Bloor viaduct, has the number of jumping suicide attempts in Toronto declined?)
Yes, I know that platform doors are not only to stop suicides and that the savings from fewer 'smoke at track level" alerts needs to be factored in too - having doors will reduce, if not eliminate, garbage at track level. Again, I have never seen figures showing % of these caused by garbage as opposed to equipment - wiring - problems.
Click to expand...

Given the angst said service interruptions causes riders and how it reduces the reliability of the system (to the point of crippling it entirely at rush), I don't think there is a better use of scarce money. Again, the measure of success isn't whether it can prevent suicides (vs. shifting attempts elsewhere), but the amount of delay it can reduce (by rider-hours). The latter should be the measure of all things for TTC.

AoD
 
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Platform doors also prevent incoming trains from fueling fires in the station, can provide an environment for climate control on the platform, etc.
 
DSC said:
All true but I think her point was that there are other things the TTC could (and should) spend money on and that maybe it is a better use of scarce money to do other things first. Though suicide is awful and costly for many reasons, I have never seen research that shows that if one makes it difficult in location A people will not just move to location B. (It is now 'impossible' to jump over the Bloor viaduct, has the number of jumping suicide attempts in Toronto declined?)
Yes, I know that platform doors are not only to stop suicides and that the savings from fewer 'smoke at track level" alerts needs to be factored in too - having doors will reduce, if not eliminate, garbage at track level. Again, I have never seen figures showing % of these caused by garbage as opposed to equipment - wiring - problems.
Click to expand...

It's not just subsidies. From this link:

A 61-year-old man was killed Sunday (Nov 16) in New York when he was pushed onto subway tracks by an unknown assailant, said police, who released a video of the suspect.
Click to expand...
 
DSC said:
All true but I think her point was that there are other things the TTC could (and should) spend money on and that maybe it is a better use of scarce money to do other things first. Though suicide is awful and costly for many reasons, I have never seen research that shows that if one makes it difficult in location A people will not just move to location B. (It is now 'impossible' to jump over the Bloor viaduct, has the number of jumping suicide attempts in Toronto declined?)
Yes, I know that platform doors are not only to stop suicides and that the savings from fewer 'smoke at track level" alerts needs to be factored in too - having doors will reduce, if not eliminate, garbage at track level. Again, I have never seen figures showing % of these caused by garbage as opposed to equipment - wiring - problems.
Click to expand...

Smoke on the tracks causes relatively few delays. Ensuring that operators and equipment are always available, or finding a way to get passengers to stop from falling ill or injuring themselves would have a greater impact on reducing delays.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Given the angst said service interruptions causes riders and how it reduces the reliability of the system (to the point of crippling it entirely at rush), I don't think there is a better use of scarce money. Again, the measure of success isn't whether it can prevent suicides (vs. shifting attempts elsewhere), but the amount of delay it can reduce (by rider-hours). The latter should be the measure of all things for TTC.

AoD
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It also permits trains to come into the platform at full speeds. And speeds the boarding of trains (no excuse for that person who stands blocking people exiting a subway car). These effectively increases the capacity of the system.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Rosie DiManno on barriers, from the Star:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/11/17/arguments_for_subway_barriers_go_nowhere_dimanno.html

She missed the point - it shouldn't be there to prevent suicides (which is an ancillary benefit) - it should be there to a) prevent suicides from mucking up the system, b) sparing operators from the traumatic experience of operating a vehicle that hit and kill said individuals and c) sparing cleanup crew from the same. Forget about trying to put a dollar figure on the lives of an individual who got killed - put a dollar figure on the time/productivity lost due to the delay said suicide attempts inflicted instead.

AoD
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Exactly, completely misses the point. It's not about preventing suicides, the person who would've jumped can commit suicide in other ways, but if they do, they won't be paralyzing the city's transit network.

It's about keeping the subway working. We have a bare-bones subway system which is absolutely essential for the city to operate. If, when one person attempts to jump or accidentally falls in, it paralyzes the whole transit network, that's a major problem. And the frequency of these incidents will grow as the population of Toronto increases and ridership increases.
 
I wish someone could quanitify the economic impact of the transit delays due to people using the subways to commit suicide as well as other foreign objects/persons ending up at track level.
 
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