TTC: Automatic Train Control and Subway Platform Screen Doors

[BurlOak]

The last estimate I read was around $1B. I believe that included a substantial overhaul of the smoke ventillation systems (like Finch got: $6.5M per station) due to the doors changing the airflow patterns, asbestos removal at some stations, and signal system on Bloor/Danforth.

If the airflow is a concern, partial height screen doors may not have the same problem. Alternatively, breathable screens could be used - I am thinking chain link fence, but I am sure there is something similar that still has reasonable apprearance.

Even at that, I say I would rather spend the money on expanding the transit system.

Although they are different operators, why is screen doors on GO not being talked about.

 

[Tulse]

As I understand it, platform doors reduce service interruptions by preventing track-level fires from trash, and preventing falls and suicides. They essentially increase the capacity of the current system. In that sense they aren't just "gravy".

 

[drum118]

As I understand it, platform doors reduce service interruptions by preventing track-level fires from trash, and preventing falls and suicides. They essentially increase the capacity of the current system. In that sense they aren't just "gravy".

They are gravy until TTC can bring the existing system up to code and date, as well having funds to maintain the system. This also includes the surface routes and vehicles.

The biggest problems are people been too lazies to take their trash with them to a container, platforms built undersize, not enough exit, people rushing to the point of pushing people onto the tracks.

Suicides or attempts to do so will take place one way or another regardless what is done. They will go elsewhere and cause problems there.

Even on a good day, the system does not have the capacity to move people like it should.

 

[Tulse]

The biggest problems are people been too lazies to take their trash with them to a container, platforms built undersize, not enough exit, people rushing to the point of pushing people onto the tracks.

Right, but the effect of all those things on actual service would be mitigated by platform doors.

Suicides or attempts to do so will take place one way or another regardless what is done. They will go elsewhere and cause problems there.

Right, they will go elsewhere, and not cause major service disruptions on the TTC.

 

[drum118]

Right, but the effect of all those things on actual service would be mitigated by platform doors.



Right, they will go elsewhere, and not cause major service disruptions on the TTC.

All they have to do is start stepping in front of buses or streetcars to cause TTC problems. Then they could jump from overpasses onto the tracks to stop the subways.

I guess you never have used King, Queen or Dundas at peak time and try using the platforms?? Only a few stations needs the doors.

 

[Tulse]

All they have to do is start stepping in front of buses or streetcars to cause TTC problems. Then they could jump from overpasses onto the tracks to stop the subways.

I very much doubt that one of the criteria suicide victims use in choosing their methods is "disrupting TTC service".

I guess you never have used King, Queen or Dundas at peak time and try using the platforms?? Only a few stations needs the doors.

I agree that only a few stations would actually benefit greatly from doors. But I think that in such cases there are real, tangible service benefits that accrue. The question is whether the benefits justify the cost, a question that I don't think can be dismissed with the notion that doors must be "gravy".

 

[dowlingm]

I also have no problem with the notion that suicide should be more difficult since finding the way blocked by PEDs might give the unfortunate individual the chance to think again - after all it was the justification for the veil on the Prince Edward Viaduct.

I believe there was an expensive redesign required for the Spadina Extension stations due to have PEDs on day one, because when there was a move to remove them on "cost" grounds it emerged that the PEDs were also serving as roof supports so some of the "savings" disappeared into the pockets of the architects/engineers to rework the roof structure.

PEDs would reduce A/C and heating costs (due to losses into the air/tunnels), reduce track fires, reduce service interruptions due to unauthorized at track level or people dropping wallets between the platform edge and the train (happened to me once ), noise from squealing wheels, brake dust, medical absences or retraining for traumatised train drivers.

All of that saves the system operating dollars (except the squeal I guess) and improves ridership (by providing more reliable service), and that's just the stuff off the top of my head. I agree with starting with the downtown U and any station built after Spadina opens (i.e. DRL/Richmond Hill) and extending further as funds permit.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

PEDs would reduce A/C and heating costs (due to losses into the air/tunnels)

As a note, the system as it stands right now is ventilated (if that), not heated I believe.

AoD

 

[drum118]

As a note, the system as it stands right now is ventilated (if that), not heated I believe.

AoD

You are correct.

 

[Red October]

The thing about platform doors is that yes they are a good thing, but they aren't necessary really. I'd personally rather see the system expanded into a real subway network than have these installed at every station. Over here the only places I've seen platform doors are in the newer stations of the Jubilee line.. from Westminster to Greenwich North, with none on the most busy lines like the Jubilee Northbound, Picadilly, Central, Northern, Victoria, Bakerloo, etc. These are the lines that go through the busiest stations too like Picadilly Circus, Charing Cross, Oxford Circus, etc.

So if they want to install them in the new stations they're building as part of the Spadina extension or eventually the DRL, fine.. But over here they seem to get along just fine without them in the busier stations, so I don't think it should be a priority to put them in Union, Dundas, Bloor, etc.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Due to cost cutting, we will have to wait for years before any start to the installation of platform doors on any underground electric railway in Toronto.

See link. It was supposed to being installation in 2013, as part of the 2011-2015 capital program.

Once we may get a new mayor in 2015, I would imagine that the platform door program would go back on the TTC capital program. Unfortunately, Ford Nation would protest that it is just another example of the spendthrift ways of council, when they do. Despite that such doors are needed. Just like pruning trees is a waste, for some.

 

[DSC]

Due to cost cutting, we will have to wait for years before any start to the installation of platform doors on any underground electric railway in Toronto.

See link. It was supposed to being installation in 2013, as part of the 2011-2015 capital program.

Once we may get a new mayor in 2015, I would imagine that the platform door program would go back on the TTC capital program. Unfortunately, Ford Nation would protest that it is just another example of the spendthrift ways of council, when they do. Despite that such doors are needed. Just like pruning trees is a waste, for some.

I must say I was pleased to see that funding has been removed for these platform doors - while they may be a fairly good idea there are lots of "improvements' in the list of unfunded projects that would be far higher importance to most people.

 

[Tulse]

Due to cost cutting, we will have to wait for years before any start to the installation of platform doors on any underground electric railway in Toronto.

Such doors depend on having automatic train control (ATC), in order to ensure the trains line up to the platform doors correctly. As I understand it, the TTC is currently working on some aspects of ATC for the Yonge line, but it is not implemented yet, and there are no concrete plans that I know of for B-D. Given that, it's not surprising that we're not seeing the door program active.

 

[salsa]

The TTC should have installed platform screen doors on the Spadina extention if they are serious about implementing it.

 

[Johnny Au]

Platform screen doors should be built, but only if there is automatic train control, as it would be much easier to align the doors.

It would also reduce delays, as debris cannot go through platform screen doors.