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Trudeau's virtue signalling

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buildup said:
If your job or your business was on the line you'd be more practical I assure you :)
Trudeau/Freeland would've had more luck advocating her cause behind the scenes (formerly known as diplomacy) rather than grand-standing. So its either cynical virtue-signalling or naive. Not sure which is worse.
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I'd be more "practical" about a woman being thrown in jail for advocating for her right to vote? You assure me about what I would think?

So talking about human rights violations publicly is "grandstanding"? Please tell me all the times behind the scenes diplomacy has worked in this situation. Or why we shouldn't talk publicly and openly about human rights.

What's far worse is people using the toxic alt-right term "virtue-signalling" without any self awareness.
 
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buildup said:
Yes, you have it.
In the first case millions of blacks being brutally oppressed, the second a tribal/theocratic system which I don't admire but which is legitimate until the Saudis decide otherwise (for themselves)
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"Legitimate".

I'll just leave that there.

Race-based human rights violations illegitimate. Non-race-based human rights violations legitimate. Uh huh.
 
Skeezix said:
"Legitimate".

I'll just leave that there.

Race-based human rights violations illegitimate. Non-race-based human rights violations legitimate. Uh huh.
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Its the patronizing attitude of Westerners towards other cultures than is so off-putting. For the 100th time. Women in Saudi Arabia do not have the right to vote until the Saudi's establish that right (which they hopefully will). They do not need you at all, your 'voice' is not important. We also don't need theocracies lecturing us about abortion for example.
 
Skeezix said:
"Legitimate".

I'll just leave that there.

Race-based human rights violations illegitimate. Non-race-based human rights violations legitimate. Uh huh.
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Yes correct. If men can vote, but women cannot then the issue cuts through each family. Therefore it can be resolved as attitudes change and evolve at a micro level. Racial injustices are maco and cannot be solved the same way.
 
buildup said:
Its the patronizing attitude of Westerners towards other cultures than is so off-putting. For the 100th time. Women in Saudi Arabia do not have the right to vote until the Saudi's establish that right (which they hopefully will). They do not need you at all, your 'voice' is not important. We also don't need theocracies lecturing us about abortion for example.
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How is being upset over human rights violations "patronizing"?

If the police arrived where you were now, beat you and threw you in the detention centre without charge or access to legal representation, would it be "patronizing" to be concerned about you? What if I tweeted about you from, say, the Netherlands?

How was the fight against apartheid not patronizing? Oh, yes, race-based human rights violations aren't okay, but non-race-based human rights violations are okay. So if cops in Saudi Arabia beat an African man to death because of his skin colour and religion, are we allowed, or not allowed, to express concern under this scheme of yours?
 
Skeezix said:
How is being upset over human rights violations "patronizing"?

If the police arrived where you were now, beat you and threw you in the detention centre without charge or access to legal representation, would it be "patronizing" to be concerned about you?

How was the fight against apartheid not patronizing? Oh, yes, race-based human rights violations aren't okay, but non-race-based human rights violations are okay. So if cops in Saudi Arabia beat an African man to death because of his skin colour and religion, are we allowed, or not allowed, to express concern under this scheme of yours?
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He should look up the case of Robert Sampson - one that ended up relative tragedy, I might add.

AoD
 
buildup said:
Yes correct. If men can vote, but women cannot then the issue cuts through each family. Therefore it can be resolved as attitudes change and evolve at a micro level. Racial injustices are maco and cannot be solved the same way.
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I am sure Samar Badawi will be thrilled to hear that the fight for women's rights (not just the vote) is advancing at a "micro level", and that's okay, as she rots in prison.
 
Skeezix said:
I am sure Samar Badawi will be thrilled to hear that the fight for women's rights (not just the vote) is advancing at a "micro level", and that's okay, as she rots in prison.
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You still don't get it. This woman wants to be arrested. She is an enormously courageous political activist with huge skin in the game. She wants to go to jail to bring attention to her cause and to rally the support of Saudi society. That is what activists do, they challenge, they pay a price, and sometimes they win. A couple of Canadian tweets are comically irrelevant.
I know we like to think the whole world is sitting on pins & needles waiting to hear our position....
 
buildup said:
You still don't get it. This woman wants to be arrested. She is an enormously courageous political activist with huge skin in the game. She wants to go to jail to bring attention to her cause and to rally the support of Saudi society. That is what activists do, they challenge, they pay a price, and sometimes they win. A couple of Canadian tweets are comically irrelevant.
I know we like to think the whole world is sitting on pins & needles waiting to hear our position....
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"This woman wants to be arrested."

Yes, sitting in a Saudi prison is clearly her objective.

Are you actually reading your posts? And you actually said "you still don't get it"!

ETA: Also, how are the Canadian tweets irrelevant if the Saudi government reacted so hysterically to them? And if you have spent so very much time writing about them here?
 
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Skeezix said:
"This woman wants to be arrested."

Yes, sitting in a Saudi prison is clearly her objective.
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You are quite naive, and don't understand true courage when its staring you in the face. This woman knew she would arrested. She did not expect to just have everything handed to her. Going to jail is a way of confronting and shaming her government. Its now up to the husbands, brothers and sons of Saudi women to evolve. That is the crisis she is trying to provoke. You should respect her, but realize she doesn't need you - she needs her people.
 
buildup said:
You are quite naive, and don't understand true courage when its staring you in the face. This woman knew she would arrested. She did not expect to just have everything handed to her. Going to jail is a way of confronting and shaming her government. Its now up to the husbands, brothers and sons of Saudi women to evolve. That is the crisis she is trying to provoke. You should respect her, but realize she doesn't need you - she needs her people.
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I'm naive. Got it. You know, I didn't even understand the whole "acceptable human rights violations" versus "unacceptable human rights violations" until you explained it above, although I am still waiting for you to elaborate on whether or not we are allowed to be concerned if the Saudi police beat someone on the basis of race and religion. Not sure which discrimination trumps the other one there.

So glad you are here to explain the inner workings of Saudi human rights activism to us.

Also, you should Google that Sampson guy.
 
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