Transit Fantasy Maps

[Woodbridge_Heights]

It is, but it's nowhere the size of a Hamilton or a Kitchener. The population and ridership in Durham is pretty evenly distributed between the 4 stations there. Oshawa may have the slight lead currently because it's the EOL and sees a lot of drive-in traffic from further east, something that should diminish when the Bowmanville extension comes online.

By contrast, once frequencies to West Harbour increase, I think we'll see a significant increase in the amount of people using that station, and that's something that won't really be affected by the opening of Confederation or Casablanca or any of the other stations on the Niagara extension.

My recollection from last looking at ridership in Durham was that the ridership generally tracked fairly consistent with the available parking at the station. Avg daily ridership generally was equal to the amount of available parking at the station plus about 1000 extra passengers. Oshawa got a bit of a bump as the will station with its connections to Peterborough and Bowmanville go bus routes, as well as what little ridership came out of the via rail service. I'm not sure how this compares to ridership on the LW line but anecdotally I'd say local transit connections are not that great in Durham compared to their counterparts in the west. Part of that I'd say is due to the geography of the line through Durham.

While Oshawa doesn't have the population of Hamilton it is the largest city by population in the region so it makes sense for it to be the hub. Perhaps the new Oshawa central station on the Bowmanville extension will attract more local transit connections.

 

[micheal_can]

My recollection from last looking at ridership in Durham was that the ridership generally tracked fairly consistent with the available parking at the station. Avg daily ridership generally was equal to the amount of available parking at the station plus about 1000 extra passengers. Oshawa got a bit of a bump as the will station with its connections to Peterborough and Bowmanville go bus routes, as well as what little ridership came out of the via rail service. I'm not sure how this compares to ridership on the LW line but anecdotally I'd say local transit connections are not that great in Durham compared to their counterparts in the west. Part of that I'd say is due to the geography of the line through Durham.

While Oshawa doesn't have the population of Hamilton it is the largest city by population in the region so it makes sense for it to be the hub. Perhaps the new Oshawa central station on the Bowmanville extension will attract more local transit connections.

About 20 years ago, all buses in Whitby met the GO trains for the peak. There was no easy way to get to the Oshawa GO station in the city. Durham really lacks good transit.

 

[ericmacm]

Here's something I've been working on for a little bit - a concept for an expanded GO Network in the future, visualized with geographic accuracy. The recent introduction of service to London has shown, in my opinion, that Metrolinx is willing to branch out the GO rail network much further than many of us previously anticipated, so there's a lot of new room for imagination as to what the future network will look like. I personally believe that the network will be able to branch out even further as the neighbourhoods around stations in the GTA intensify (with lots of help from GO RER) and make the network vastly more used and profitable. My map includes potential future extensions of:

• Lakeshore East to Kingston
• Stouffville to Uxbridge
• Richmond Hill to Beaverton
• Barrie to Collingwood and Orillia
• Kitchener to Port Stanley, Strathroy, and Goderich
• Milton to Cambridge and MCC
• Lakeshore West to London, Port Colborne, and Fort Erie

Additionally, I have added the Bolton, Peterborough, and Toronto Midtown lines to the map. While some of these new extensions/lines are definitely far out in the future, I don't believe that any of them are inherently unrealistic.

CentralONTransit2050 by Eric MacMillan, on Flickr

 

[micheal_can]

Here's something I've been working on for a little bit - a concept for an expanded GO Network in the future, visualized with geographic accuracy. The recent introduction of service to London has shown, in my opinion, that Metrolinx is willing to branch out the GO rail network much further than many of us previously anticipated, so there's a lot of new room for imagination as to what the future network will look like. I personally believe that the network will be able to branch out even further as the neighbourhoods around stations in the GTA intensify (with lots of help from GO RER) and make the network vastly more used and profitable. My map includes potential future extensions of:

• Lakeshore East to Kingston
• Stouffville to Uxbridge
• Richmond Hill to Beaverton
• Barrie to Collingwood and Orillia
• Kitchener to Port Stanley, Strathroy, and Goderich
• Milton to Cambridge
• Lakeshore West to London, Port Colborne, and Fort Erie

Additionally, I have added the Bolton, Peterborough, and Toronto Midtown lines to the map. While some of these new extensions/lines are definitely far out in the future, I don't believe that any of them are inherently unrealistic.

CentralONTransit2050 by Eric MacMillan, on Flickr

I have much to comment.

1) I like how you added Fort Erie. It does make sense to add something to it. Ideally it would go to the Niagara Falls station first before heading to Hamilton. This could see some sort of LRT in the Niagara Falls area that would connect to the tourist area.

2) I have always thought an extension to Cambridge made sense. I wonder if connecting it to London would be warranted? It may be beneficial to commuters going to Cambridge from London.

3) Going to St Thomas would help commuters greatly. Having weekend service to Port Stanley would be good to boost tourism in the area.

4) If you are going to Strathroy, why not continue to Sarnia? Beyond Strathroy are small places that people might commute from to London.

5) Good to see the Bolton GO line on here. Any chance of it going to Orangeville?

6) You cannot get there from here..... Orillia.I see you skirt the city of Barrie to get there, but that is no easy route to do so. An alternative could be to bring the RH line to Orillia via the old bridge.

7) Kingston does make some sense now that London makes sense.

Overall, a good future plan.

 

[ericmacm]

I have much to comment.

1) I like how you added Fort Erie. It does make sense to add something to it. Ideally it would go to the Niagara Falls station first before heading to Hamilton. This could see some sort of LRT in the Niagara Falls area that would connect to the tourist area.

2) I have always thought an extension to Cambridge made sense. I wonder if connecting it to London would be warranted? It may be beneficial to commuters going to Cambridge from London.

3) Going to St Thomas would help commuters greatly. Having weekend service to Port Stanley would be good to boost tourism in the area.

4) If you are going to Strathroy, why not continue to Sarnia? Beyond Strathroy are small places that people might commute from to London.

5) Good to see the Bolton GO line on here. Any chance of it going to Orangeville?

6) You cannot get there from here..... Orillia.I see you skirt the city of Barrie to get there, but that is no easy route to do so. An alternative could be to bring the RH line to Orillia via the old bridge.

7) Kingston does make some sense now that London makes sense.

Overall, a good future plan.

Most of these routes are based around existing rail corridors or former rail corridors that have been mothballed. I was trying to minimize the amount of new rail corridors that would be needed since that would be the most practical option for any extensions. For Cambridge, I was debating between either the Fergus Subdivision spur from Guelph or an extension of the Milton Line, but I opted for the Milton Line because I'd one day like to see a Glen Eden stop (the tracks go right by the ski hill). For the extensions to Strathroy and St. Thomas/Port Stanley, the thought was for commuter service into London. The problem with Sarnia is that there are no sizeable towns between Strathroy and Sarnia along the railway, so it would basically be a very long one-stop extension. My input on the Bolton Line is that the existing rail in the area continues north toward Tottenham and New Tecumseth, not Orangeville. That would involve a new corridor which would not be a likely path forward as a future extension. As for Orillia, I would agree that it is difficult to get there. My thoughts were a loop around Barrie (with some kind of North Barrie/Midhurst station) that links up with the old Oro-Medonte rail trail that leads to downtown Orillia, which would need to be restored into a railway again.

Either way, thanks. I'm likely going to refine on this in the future.

 

[micheal_can]

Most of these routes are based around existing rail corridors or former rail corridors that have been mothballed. I was trying to minimize the amount of new rail corridors that would be needed since that would be the most practical option for any extensions.

Thank makes sense.

For Cambridge, I was debating between either the Fergus Subdivision spur from Guelph or an extension of the Milton Line, but I opted for the Milton Line because I'd one day like to see a Glen Eden stop (the tracks go right by the ski hill).

That does make the most sense.

For the extensions to Strathroy and St. Thomas/Port Stanley, the thought was for commuter service into London.

Port Stanley is a major tourist area that Londoners go to. Not having a train on the weekends would be missing out on a good opportunity to increase the tourism.

The problem with Sarnia is that there are no sizeable towns between Strathroy and Sarnia along the railway, so it would basically be a very long one-stop extension.

If this were to include Watford and Wyoming it would not only cover the other Via station, but would add a station and allow that area to grow.

My input on the Bolton Line is that the existing rail in the area continues north toward Tottenham and New Tecumseth, not Orangeville.
That would involve a new corridor which would not be a likely path forward as a future extension.

My mistake. I picked the wrong line. The Line I was thinking is west of Highway 10.

As for Orillia, I would agree that it is difficult to get there. My thoughts were a loop around Barrie (with some kind of North Barrie/Midhurst station) that links up with the old Oro-Medonte rail trail that leads to downtown Orillia, which would need to be restored into a railway again.

Orllia GO - Google My Maps

From he Barrie Line north to Orillia and to Washago

www.google.com

Like that?

Either way, thanks. I'm likely going to refine on this in the future.

I look forward to the refinements.

 

[Willybru21]

(Made on mobile) GO Transit map with
TBOT Trillium network proposal, all future
projects under construction now, and all
previously abandoned proposals from
many years ago.

https://imgur.com/a/hPkdgkM

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Here's something I've been working on for a little bit - a concept for an expanded GO Network in the future, visualized with geographic accuracy. The recent introduction of service to London has shown, in my opinion, that Metrolinx is willing to branch out the GO rail network much further than many of us previously anticipated, so there's a lot of new room for imagination as to what the future network will look like. I personally believe that the network will be able to branch out even further as the neighbourhoods around stations in the GTA intensify (with lots of help from GO RER) and make the network vastly more used and profitable. My map includes potential future extensions of:

• Lakeshore East to Kingston
• Stouffville to Uxbridge
• Richmond Hill to Beaverton
• Barrie to Collingwood and Orillia
• Kitchener to Port Stanley, Strathroy, and Goderich
• Milton to Cambridge and MCC
• Lakeshore West to London, Port Colborne, and Fort Erie

Additionally, I have added the Bolton, Peterborough, and Toronto Midtown lines to the map. While some of these new extensions/lines are definitely far out in the future, I don't believe that any of them are inherently unrealistic.

CentralONTransit2050 by Eric MacMillan, on Flickr

Really how much of this network should be provided by VIA or a VIA like regional service?

 

[robmausser]

Really how much of this network should be provided by VIA or a VIA like regional service?

My thought exactly, and some of it already is.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

I think the real answer to that question is that we need to make a less sharp distinction between the operators. It probably does make sense to operate some of these more in the fashion of a lower capacity intercity service. It also makes much more sense for the province to be the lead authority on them than the feds. Which operator should actually provide staff and equipment is probably just a cost question, or would be if we had anything like common trip information and ticketing.

 

[ericmacm]

Really how much of this network should be provided by VIA or a VIA like regional service?

I unfortunately see VIA in Ontario as something that might not last very far into the future due to the way it is managed, whereas Metrolinx/GO is gradually evolving into a major profitable asset that has a much greater potential to provide longer-distance service within the province, due to the fact that it owns a majority of its tracks (with some major sections planned to be electrified), owns/can develop the land that a majority of its stations are on, and has multiple core high-volume stations to make up for the lower-volume peripheral stations. In short, Metrolinx/GO has lots of assets, VIA does not, so I believe they are better equipped to provide more profitable/sustainable long-distance service. They become even better equipped once you account for the time savings on the core GO network brought in from electrification.

It's hard to tell how the network is going to look far in the future, but the past 30 years have certainly been a massive change for the network, so I see no reason why the next 30 years won't be either.

 

[EnviroTO]

I unfortunately see VIA in Ontario as something that might not last very far into the future due to the way it is managed, whereas Metrolinx/GO is gradually evolving into a major profitable asset that has a much greater potential to provide longer-distance service within the province, due to the fact that it owns a majority of its tracks (with some major sections planned to be electrified), owns/can develop the land that a majority of its stations are on, and has multiple core high-volume stations to make up for the lower-volume peripheral stations. In short, Metrolinx/GO has lots of assets, VIA does not, so I believe they are better equipped to provide more profitable/sustainable long-distance service. They become even better equipped once you account for the time savings on the core GO network brought in from electrification.

It's hard to tell how the network is going to look far in the future, but the past 30 years have certainly been a massive change for the network, so I see no reason why the next 30 years won't be either.

Certainly I think that VIA HFR is really the project that either keeps VIA relevant if implemented, or leads to its demise if it doesn't cross the finish line. I can't see a future for an increasingly slower or more unreliable train service in the corridor plus some tourist trains as a service that the federal government will continue to fund as changes in governments occur. At some point a future government will pull the plug on VIA if it doesn't have a sustainable business model and a clear purpose which resonates with people. A purpose of "thrice weekly tourist trains and unreliable corridor service" just isn't what is going to sell it getting continued funding.

 

[ssiguy2]

If the HFR goes thru then I think VIA will basically become nothing more than a Tor/QC service with the very pathetic service outside that Corridor just to keep the hinterland politicians happy.

It will be viable for SWO ONLY if HFR is extended to Windsor but if they don't I can see GO simply taking over the entire Southern Ontario network. They will, of course, have to greatly improve service levels and run Windsor/London/Union Express trains to make it a viable option and of course buy a new fleet of coaches as 5 hours or more on a commuter train would be far too uncomfortable.

 

[JSF-1]

Made this map of a possible line along the 407 railway corridor. I call it the North Toronto Line and would essentially be a cross region route connecting Durham, York, Peel, Halton, and Hamilton as well as every GO Line. Since the line crosses multiple boundaries and is so long it would be part of the GO network. What rolling stock it would use would be up for debate as I have seen some on here propose such a line use OL rolling stock and not GO EMU stock. I also included the Bolton and Midtown lines to show where a connection to them would be made if they were to be created before or after this line would be.

I view this line as being Toronto's version of the Musashino Line in Tokyo. It to is a long line that wraps around the northern periphery of the city connecting the various suburban communities outside of the core. It also connects various rail lines sprawling out of the city together in the suburbs and utilizes the JR Freight main line which freight trains use to get around the city since they are not allowed into the core anymore.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Made this map of a possible line along the 407 railway corridor. I call it the North Toronto Line and would essentially be a cross region route connecting Durham, York, Peel, Halton, and Hamilton as well as every GO Line. Since the line crosses multiple boundaries and is so long it would be part of the GO network. What rolling stock it would use would be up for debate as I have seen some on here propose such a line use OL rolling stock and not GO EMU stock. I also included the Bolton and Midtown lines to show where a connection to them would be made if they were to be created before or after this line would be.

I view this line as being Toronto's version of the Musashino Line in Tokyo. It to is a long line that wraps around the northern periphery of the city connecting the various suburban communities outside of the core. It also connects various rail lines sprawling out of the city together in the suburbs and utilizes the JR Freight main line which freight trains use to get around the city since they are not allowed into the core anymore.

View attachment 401228

I mean that's basically what the Government proposed in the GGH transportation plan a few months ago, with a big difference being that it would run along the 407 and 403 through Mississauga and Pearson before connecting to Vaughan.