Transit Fantasy Maps

[micheal_can]

There have been many conversations on how to expand the Sheppard Subway east. Some say to build it underground to STC, some say build it aboveground on Sheppard, some say to convert the entire line to light metro or to replace the line with an OL Extension.

Here's my alignment. Basically running on Highway 401's express lanes removing one express lane in each direction, and running the heavy rail subway along most of the extension. This makes the line way more efficient and affordable to build. It'll be similar to phase two of the Confederation Line in Ottawa, so it won't be new.

The first phase would be tunnelled from Don Mills to the 401 stopping at Consumers and Victoria Park and rising to the 401 and stopping at Warden. It would continue east along the highway stopping just east of Kennedy and veering off the 401 for an open station at that massive field at Brimley. Then the line interchanges at Scarborough Centre with Line 2 where phase one would end.

Phase 2 (work in progress) continues and has a stop at Progress/Markham for a connection with Centennial College and buses, then potential stops at Neilson, Morningside and Meadowvale and could end at either Rylander (Abbey Lane) or Sheppard/Port Union.

I seriously think this is a really good option for the city/province to build transit a bit more affordably and could actually reduce drivers on the 401 with the conversion of traffic lanes. It'll be construction hell for a decent amount of time but I think it'll be worth it.
Pros:
-Less tunnelling compared to fully tunnelled extension to McCowan; more affordable and quicker building
-No disruption to Sheppard East
-More compelling for commuters to choose transit
Cons:
-Construction Nightmare on the highway and rebuilding some overpasses.
-Highway Stations at Interchanges can be difficult for pedestrians. This can be worked out by making interchanges less encouraging for speeding, -widening sidewalks, cycle tracks, traffic signals controlling on-ramps etc.
-Less potential for development and transformation on Sheppard Avenue East.

View attachment 371141

Consumers Station would be located underground on Consumers Road connecting with buses and the heart of the business park.

Meadow Acres (Victoria Park) would also be underground connecting with buses, the eastern business park and new developments!

Wishing Well (Warden) will be a simpler station connecting with the 68, Warden Hydro Corridor Trail and the local neighbourhoods.

Village Green (Kennedy) will connect with the 43, Village Green, Kennedy Commons and a potential Stouffville Station (read more below)

Brimley will be a cut-and-cover station on the SW corner of 401 and Brimley connecting with the 21 bus and massive redevelopments.

and Scarborough Centre will connect underground with Line 2, DSBRT and other various connections and POI's.

Phase 2 is still a work in progress for alignment and stations. Also a future station could be added at Birchmount to connect with the far-future Midtown Corridor and Birchmount Rd.


Here's a terrible photoshop of a station at Wishing Well (Warden.) Can you guess which station I stole this entrance from?

View attachment 371143

Here's a serious proposal for a station at Village Green (Kennedy) that would work hand-in-hand with a new station on the Stouffville Line and would seriously improve transit and active transportation connections in South Agincourt. Sure, there are encroachment issues but I think they can be worked out.

View attachment 371144

Thoughts?

I have always wondered why a line above the 401 wasn't built. My question is how you plan on convincing a politician to do what is basically something that will ensure they will not be voted in again by suggesting removing lanes.

 

[Mercenary]

I just make mine in Paint.net and I think they look great:

View attachment 370581To be fair though, I just expanded on a TTC subway map I got off Wikimedia Commons and added a lot to it.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/TTC_subway_map_2023.svg/640px-TTC_subway_map_2023.svg.png

This is what I hope by 2050 the Subway map of Toronto will look like. It will look a complete and holistic system.

The Bloor line is extended westwards towards Mississauga City Center and eastwards Towards Markham

The sheppard line is extended westwards to link up with the bloor-danforth line and extended eastwards to link up with the university line.

The Ontario line is extended upwards to Don Mills to link up the Sheppard Line on the East end, and extended upwards from Exhibition linking up with Bloor line at Dundas West, Eglinton line at Mt. Dennis and Finch LRT at Jane and Finch.

The Eglinton line is extended westwards from Renforth to link up with Hurontario LRT.

 

[Rainforest]

There have been many conversations on how to expand the Sheppard Subway east. Some say to build it underground to STC, some say build it aboveground on Sheppard, some say to convert the entire line to light metro or to replace the line with an OL Extension.

Here's my alignment. Basically running on Highway 401's express lanes removing one express lane in each direction, and running the heavy rail subway along most of the extension. This makes the line way more efficient and affordable to build. It'll be similar to phase two of the Confederation Line in Ottawa, so it won't be new.

The first phase would be tunnelled from Don Mills to the 401 stopping at Consumers and Victoria Park and rising to the 401 and stopping at Warden. It would continue east along the highway stopping just east of Kennedy and veering off the 401 for an open station at that massive field at Brimley. Then the line interchanges at Scarborough Centre with Line 2 where phase one would end.

Phase 2 (work in progress) continues and has a stop at Progress/Markham for a connection with Centennial College and buses, then potential stops at Neilson, Morningside and Meadowvale and could end at either Rylander (Abbey Lane) or Sheppard/Port Union.

I seriously think this is a really good option for the city/province to build transit a bit more affordably and could actually reduce drivers on the 401 with the conversion of traffic lanes. It'll be construction hell for a decent amount of time but I think it'll be worth it.
Pros:
-Less tunnelling compared to fully tunnelled extension to McCowan; more affordable and quicker building
-No disruption to Sheppard East
-More compelling for commuters to choose transit
Cons:
-Construction Nightmare on the highway and rebuilding some overpasses.
-Highway Stations at Interchanges can be difficult for pedestrians. This can be worked out by making interchanges less encouraging for speeding, -widening sidewalks, cycle tracks, traffic signals controlling on-ramps etc.
-Less potential for development and transformation on Sheppard Avenue East.

View attachment 371141

Consumers Station would be located underground on Consumers Road connecting with buses and the heart of the business park.

Meadow Acres (Victoria Park) would also be underground connecting with buses, the eastern business park and new developments!

Wishing Well (Warden) will be a simpler station connecting with the 68, Warden Hydro Corridor Trail and the local neighbourhoods.

Village Green (Kennedy) will connect with the 43, Village Green, Kennedy Commons and a potential Stouffville Station (read more below)

Brimley will be a cut-and-cover station on the SW corner of 401 and Brimley connecting with the 21 bus and massive redevelopments.

and Scarborough Centre will connect underground with Line 2, DSBRT and other various connections and POI's.

Phase 2 is still a work in progress for alignment and stations. Also a future station could be added at Birchmount to connect with the far-future Midtown Corridor and Birchmount Rd.


Here's a terrible photoshop of a station at Wishing Well (Warden.) Can you guess which station I stole this entrance from?

View attachment 371143

Here's a serious proposal for a station at Village Green (Kennedy) that would work hand-in-hand with a new station on the Stouffville Line and would seriously improve transit and active transportation connections in South Agincourt. Sure, there are encroachment issues but I think they can be worked out.

View attachment 371144

Thoughts?

The photoshop is from Lawrence West stn, I guess.

I like the routing. But the required turns are rather sharp: Vic Park to the 401, then to/from STC, and finally to reach Port Union. It will be easier to get them done with light metro technology, similar to OL.

 

[micheal_can]

With everyone talking about the Sheppard Line, here are my thoughts.

1) Leave the technology as is. No sense shutting down the line and trying to fit an LRT or other tech in the existing tunnels.

2) Phase 1 is built.

3) Phase 2:: Sheppard West to Sheppard - Yonge stations This feels like a missing link that should be done first. Yes, Line 5 will be underground between Eglinton and Eglinton West stations. It would have one advantage over line 5, or even line 6 if it was extended east - no traffic. The entire length does not interact with any roads so there is no risk of bunching or uneven gaps between trains. One challenge is the West Don. What might be a neat idea is to have it come out and then back in and use a bridge in the middle of the roadway.

4) Phase 3: Sheppard - Yonge to STC.. The STC makes sense as a natural terminus/transfer station for the line. It would stay underground for the entire route. It would stay under Sheppard Ave till Brimley, in which it can swing south.

5) Phase 4 Sheppard West to YYZ. West of 400 there is no simple route, but, going to Humber College and then down to the airport would make sense.

Extensions east of STC could be done with Line 2 or 4.

Extensions west/south/north of YYZ would be most likely not be an extension of this line.

 

[Rainforest]

With everyone talking about the Sheppard Line, here are my thoughts.

1) Leave the technology as is. No sense shutting down the line and trying to fit an LRT or other tech in the existing tunnels.

Converting to low-floor LRT is a bad idea. But converting to OL-type light metro, or high-floor LRT, should not be too difficult.

My gut is that retaining the same wide-body subway technology is OK if we expect this line to never get extended past STC (or McCowan) in the east, and past Sheppard West (Allen Rd) in the west.

But if we want it to reach Pearson in the west, and perhaps connect to the Lakeshore East RER line at Port Union, then it will be cheaper and easier overall to convert to OL rolling stock before building any extensions.

 

[Rainforest]

In the west, one difficulty for the Sheppard subway extension exists in the Sheppard / Weston Rd area. Sheppard Avenue ends at Weston Rd, with houses and then Humber River on the other side.

Thus, the options are:
- Build a superdeep tunnel under Humber, probably with no station at Weston Rd.
- Expropriate and demolish several houses, and build a bridge; imagine the uproar.
- Swing south before the line gets to Weston. Go in the Wilson corridor first, and then switch to the 401 corridor and cross over Humber River while running on the north side of the 401.

I think the latter option is best, but it will be easier to do with light metro rolling stock than with wide-body trains.

 

[micheal_can]

Converting to low-floor LRT is a bad idea. But converting to OL-type light metro, or high-floor LRT, should not be too difficult.

My gut is that retaining the same wide-body subway technology is OK if we expect this line to never get extended past STC (or McCowan) in the east, and past Sheppard West (Allen Rd) in the west.

But if we want it to reach Pearson in the west, and perhaps connect to the Lakeshore East RER line at Port Union, then it will be cheaper and easier overall to convert to OL rolling stock before building any extensions.

We do not even know what OL will actually use. It might end p using the existing rolling stock for the subway. Time will tell.

Heading east, why would extending it with the subway cars be an issue?

To the west, if the only reason is cost, then it is not needed enough.

In the west, one difficulty for the Sheppard subway extension exists in the Sheppard / Weston Rd area. Sheppard Avenue ends at Weston Rd, with houses and then Humber River on the other side.

Thus, the options are:
- Build a superdeep tunnel under Humber, probably with no station at Weston Rd.
- Expropriate and demolish several houses, and build a bridge; imagine the uproar.
- Swing south before the line gets to Weston. Go in the Wilson corridor first, and then switch to the 401 corridor and cross over Humber River while running on the north side of the 401.

I think the latter option is best, but it will be easier to do with light metro rolling stock than with wide-body trains.

The section west of the 400 is definitely a challenge. I like the last one of the 3 options.

What kind of cars would fit in the existing tunnels?

 

[sacred]

There have been many conversations on how to expand the Sheppard Subway east. Some say to build it underground to STC, some say build it aboveground on Sheppard, some say to convert the entire line to light metro or to replace the line with an OL Extension.

Here's my alignment. Basically running on Highway 401's express lanes removing one express lane in each direction, and running the heavy rail subway along most of the extension. This makes the line way more efficient and affordable to build. It'll be similar to phase two of the Confederation Line in Ottawa, so it won't be new.

The first phase would be tunnelled from Don Mills to the 401 stopping at Consumers and Victoria Park and rising to the 401 and stopping at Warden. It would continue east along the highway stopping just east of Kennedy and veering off the 401 for an open station at that massive field at Brimley. Then the line interchanges at Scarborough Centre with Line 2 where phase one would end.

Phase 2 (work in progress) continues and has a stop at Progress/Markham for a connection with Centennial College and buses, then potential stops at Neilson, Morningside and Meadowvale and could end at either Rylander (Abbey Lane) or Sheppard/Port Union.

I seriously think this is a really good option for the city/province to build transit a bit more affordably and could actually reduce drivers on the 401 with the conversion of traffic lanes. It'll be construction hell for a decent amount of time but I think it'll be worth it.
Pros:
-Less tunnelling compared to fully tunnelled extension to McCowan; more affordable and quicker building
-No disruption to Sheppard East
-More compelling for commuters to choose transit
Cons:
-Construction Nightmare on the highway and rebuilding some overpasses.
-Highway Stations at Interchanges can be difficult for pedestrians. This can be worked out by making interchanges less encouraging for speeding, -widening sidewalks, cycle tracks, traffic signals controlling on-ramps etc.
-Less potential for development and transformation on Sheppard Avenue East.

View attachment 371141

Consumers Station would be located underground on Consumers Road connecting with buses and the heart of the business park.

Meadow Acres (Victoria Park) would also be underground connecting with buses, the eastern business park and new developments!

Wishing Well (Warden) will be a simpler station connecting with the 68, Warden Hydro Corridor Trail and the local neighbourhoods.

Village Green (Kennedy) will connect with the 43, Village Green, Kennedy Commons and a potential Stouffville Station (read more below)

Brimley will be a cut-and-cover station on the SW corner of 401 and Brimley connecting with the 21 bus and massive redevelopments.

and Scarborough Centre will connect underground with Line 2, DSBRT and other various connections and POI's.

Phase 2 is still a work in progress for alignment and stations. Also a future station could be added at Birchmount to connect with the far-future Midtown Corridor and Birchmount Rd.


Here's a terrible photoshop of a station at Wishing Well (Warden.) Can you guess which station I stole this entrance from?

View attachment 371143

Here's a serious proposal for a station at Village Green (Kennedy) that would work hand-in-hand with a new station on the Stouffville Line and would seriously improve transit and active transportation connections in South Agincourt. Sure, there are encroachment issues but I think they can be worked out.

View attachment 371144

Thoughts?

I think the 401 ROW is too valuable to waste on a subway line. It should be converted to an express passenger rail line after the Midtown GO line opens.

 

[DirectionNorth]

There have been many conversations on how to expand the Sheppard Subway east. Some say to build it underground to STC, some say build it aboveground on Sheppard, some say to convert the entire line to light metro or to replace the line with an OL Extension.

Here's my alignment. Basically running on Highway 401's express lanes removing one express lane in each direction, and running the heavy rail subway along most of the extension. This makes the line way more efficient and affordable to build. It'll be similar to phase two of the Confederation Line in Ottawa, so it won't be new.

I'm not a fan of freeway alignments - while most ridership comes from buses, a subway could densify the Sheppard corridor, something it couldn't do if it was in freeway. Let's grab a density map:

The 401 alignment avoids basically all density, which is concentrated along Sheppard and Ellesmere.

I can think of three very good locations for TOD along Sheppard:

The first phase would be tunnelled from Don Mills to the 401 stopping at Consumers and Victoria Park and rising to the 401 and stopping at Warden. It would continue east along the highway stopping just east of Kennedy and veering off the 401 for an open station at that massive field at Brimley. Then the line interchanges at Scarborough Centre with Line 2 where phase one would end.

Phase 2 (work in progress) continues and has a stop at Progress/Markham for a connection with Centennial College and buses, then potential stops at Neilson, Morningside and Meadowvale and could end at either Rylander (Abbey Lane) or Sheppard/Port Union.

I seriously think this is a really good option for the city/province to build transit a bit more affordably and could actually reduce drivers on the 401 with the conversion of traffic lanes. It'll be construction hell for a decent amount of time but I think it'll be worth it.
Pros:
-Less tunnelling compared to fully tunnelled extension to McCowan; more affordable and quicker building
-No disruption to Sheppard East
-More compelling for commuters to choose transit
Cons:
-Construction Nightmare on the highway and rebuilding some overpasses.
-Highway Stations at Interchanges can be difficult for pedestrians. This can be worked out by making interchanges less encouraging for speeding, -widening sidewalks, cycle tracks, traffic signals controlling on-ramps etc.
-Less potential for development and transformation on Sheppard Avenue East.

It wouldn't necessarily be more compelling, unless there was an inherent speed advantage to the 401 over Sheppard, which there isn't.

I don't get the obsession (sorry, not aimed at you) with NIMBYism in transit communities in Toronto. If we built along Sheppard without using TBMs, the savings is enough to pay each business owner $1 million (which is very excessive) and still save money. Sheppard's not a pleasant place to walk anyways, it could use a road diet.

You touched each of the negatives of the 401 alignment, which comes down to tradeoffs. I don't think that highway construction will be more affordable - rebuilding overpasses and narrowing the highway won't be quick or easy, and an elevated/cut and cover (I'm very in support of this, if you couldn't tell) extension along Sheppard allows for the things that the 401 does not.

Just because lots of people use the 401, doesn't mean that lots of people are going to places beside the 401.

View attachment 371141

Nice graphic! You have better design skills than me

We do not even know what OL will actually use. It might end p using the existing rolling stock for the subway. Time will tell.

I don't think they'll use the TR stock, as it doesn't fit what we've heard from them on train length.

Heading east, why would extending it with the subway cars be an issue?

We've been complaining about the cost of operating the Sheppard Line for decades. Light metro allows for tighter curves.

To the west, if the only reason is cost, then it is not needed enough.

Define "not needed enough."

 

[micheal_can]

I don't think they'll use the TR stock, as it doesn't fit what we've heard from them on train length.

We've been complaining about the cost of operating the Sheppard Line for decades. Light metro allows for tighter curves.

Define "not needed enough."

Can't the TRs be basically any length?

The Sheppard line goes nowhere. If it were useful an went somewhere, that cost would be worth it.

Not needed enough would be the same as saying that the buses are not at crush load throughout the day.

 

[Rainforest]

We do not even know what OL will actually use. It might end p using the existing rolling stock for the subway. Time will tell.

Heading east, why would extending it with the subway cars be an issue?

To the west, if the only reason is cost, then it is not needed enough.


The section west of the 400 is definitely a challenge. I like the last one of the 3 options.

What kind of cars would fit in the existing tunnels?

OL almost certainly will not use TTC subway rolling stock or anything of the same width. Those just won't fit the curves.

Speaking of the Sheppard extension, it is possible to build for TTC subway. But a more agile rolling stock can make the construction cheaper.

 

[Rainforest]

I think the 401 ROW is too valuable to waste on a subway line. It should be converted to an express passenger rail line after the Midtown GO line opens.

But do we need all of them together? The Sheppard line (whatever shape it takes), the Midtown GO, and then the passenger rail in the 401 corridor running so close to the Sheppard line?

 

[Rainforest]

I'm not a fan of freeway alignments - while most ridership comes from buses, a subway could densify the Sheppard corridor, something it couldn't do if it was in freeway. Let's grab a density map:
View attachment 371177
The 401 alignment avoids basically all density, which is concentrated along Sheppard and Ellesmere.

I can think of three very good locations for TOD along Sheppard:
View attachment 371178

It wouldn't necessarily be more compelling, unless there was an inherent speed advantage to the 401 over Sheppard, which there isn't.

I don't get the obsession (sorry, not aimed at you) with NIMBYism in transit communities in Toronto. If we built along Sheppard without using TBMs, the savings is enough to pay each business owner $1 million (which is very excessive) and still save money. Sheppard's not a pleasant place to walk anyways, it could use a road diet.

You touched each of the negatives of the 401 alignment, which comes down to tradeoffs. I don't think that highway construction will be more affordable - rebuilding overpasses and narrowing the highway won't be quick or easy, and an elevated/cut and cover (I'm very in support of this, if you couldn't tell) extension along Sheppard allows for the things that the 401 does not.

Just because lots of people use the 401, doesn't mean that lots of people are going to places beside the 401.

I get the case for going along Sheppard rather than 401, and promoting local density.

Maybe, long stretches along 401 aren't desirable because of the above. But I would consider some limited stretches aligned with 401 at the edges, where the local density isn't going to happen anyway, while using the 401 makes it easier to reach important destinations.

In the east, that could mean staying in the Sheppard corridor till Kennedy, Brimpley, or McCowan; most of possible local density will be supported by that. And then, flipping to the 401 corridor to reach Centennial (Progress campus), UofT Scarborough, and Port Union GO station.

In the west, the line could continue along Sheppard till Allen Road, then use the Wilson Yard lands to flip to Wilson on surface. The Wilson segment could have stations at Dufferin, Keele, Jane, and maybe 1 or 2 in between. And then flipping to the 401 corridor to cross Humber River. After that, could serve Dixon road en route to Pearson, or turn north along Islington or Kipling.

 

[blacksquirrels]

There have been many conversations on how to expand the Sheppard Subway east. Some say to build it underground to STC, some say build it aboveground on Sheppard, some say to convert the entire line to light metro or to replace the line with an OL Extension.

Here's my alignment. Basically running on Highway 401's express lanes removing one express lane in each direction, and running the heavy rail subway along most of the extension. This makes the line way more efficient and affordable to build. It'll be similar to phase two of the Confederation Line in Ottawa, so it won't be new.

The first phase would be tunnelled from Don Mills to the 401 stopping at Consumers and Victoria Park and rising to the 401 and stopping at Warden. It would continue east along the highway stopping just east of Kennedy and veering off the 401 for an open station at that massive field at Brimley. Then the line interchanges at Scarborough Centre with Line 2 where phase one would end.

Phase 2 (work in progress) continues and has a stop at Progress/Markham for a connection with Centennial College and buses, then potential stops at Neilson, Morningside and Meadowvale and could end at either Rylander (Abbey Lane) or Sheppard/Port Union.

I seriously think this is a really good option for the city/province to build transit a bit more affordably and could actually reduce drivers on the 401 with the conversion of traffic lanes. It'll be construction hell for a decent amount of time but I think it'll be worth it.
Pros:
-Less tunnelling compared to fully tunnelled extension to McCowan; more affordable and quicker building
-No disruption to Sheppard East
-More compelling for commuters to choose transit
Cons:
-Construction Nightmare on the highway and rebuilding some overpasses.
-Highway Stations at Interchanges can be difficult for pedestrians. This can be worked out by making interchanges less encouraging for speeding, -widening sidewalks, cycle tracks, traffic signals controlling on-ramps etc.
-Less potential for development and transformation on Sheppard Avenue East.

View attachment 371141

Consumers Station would be located underground on Consumers Road connecting with buses and the heart of the business park.

Meadow Acres (Victoria Park) would also be underground connecting with buses, the eastern business park and new developments!

Wishing Well (Warden) will be a simpler station connecting with the 68, Warden Hydro Corridor Trail and the local neighbourhoods.

Village Green (Kennedy) will connect with the 43, Village Green, Kennedy Commons and a potential Stouffville Station (read more below)

Brimley will be a cut-and-cover station on the SW corner of 401 and Brimley connecting with the 21 bus and massive redevelopments.

and Scarborough Centre will connect underground with Line 2, DSBRT and other various connections and POI's.

Phase 2 is still a work in progress for alignment and stations. Also a future station could be added at Birchmount to connect with the far-future Midtown Corridor and Birchmount Rd.


Here's a terrible photoshop of a station at Wishing Well (Warden.) Can you guess which station I stole this entrance from?

View attachment 371143

Here's a serious proposal for a station at Village Green (Kennedy) that would work hand-in-hand with a new station on the Stouffville Line and would seriously improve transit and active transportation connections in South Agincourt. Sure, there are encroachment issues but I think they can be worked out.

View attachment 371144

Thoughts?

There was this map I saw here a few years ago (page 291 of this thread) that had pretty much the exact same idea.

I don't think this is currently viable politically or otherwise, but it's intriguing nonetheless. Also make you think whether an Ontario Line West extension could eventually follow sections of the Gardiner Expressway/QEW and then head North on the 427 to YYZ. If they want to discourage driving this is probably the most viable way to do so, plus having the added benefit of much cheaper and quicker construction. Also there's obviously already a precedence with the Allen Rd. section of Line 1.

 

[micheal_can]

OL almost certainly will not use TTC subway rolling stock or anything of the same width. Those just won't fit the curves.

Speaking of the Sheppard extension, it is possible to build for TTC subway. But a more agile rolling stock can make the construction cheaper.

There is no reason that something the same size as the TRs, but have shorter sections cannot be used for tighter curves.

There was this map I saw here a few years ago (page 291 of this thread) that had pretty much the exact same idea.

View attachment 371241

I don't think this is currently viable politically or otherwise, but it's intriguing nonetheless. Also make you think whether an Ontario Line West extension could eventually follow sections of the Gardiner Expressway/QEW and then head North on the 427 to YYZ. If they want to discourage driving this is probably the most viable way to do so, plus having the added benefit of much cheaper and quicker construction. Also there's obviously already a precedence with the Allen Rd. section of Line 1.

Getting the OL out to the 427 before heading north does make sense. Parts of the Gardnier is too far south for most high density areas to make it a good corridor choice.