News   Nov 28, 2024
 241     0 
News   Nov 28, 2024
 663     2 
News   Nov 28, 2024
 620     0 

Transit Fantasy Maps

This is fantastic! I'd played with the idea of extending the DRL along the Metrolinx Bala sub north of Don Mills Centre, but at that point I was thinking in terms of rapid transit technology so the line had to end at Steeles due to the CN traffic. This makes much more sense.

Yup, using mainline technology opens up a whole bunch of possibilities that wouldn't exist if you were building it as part of the TTC subway network. Overall, I think that using GO REX along the Richmond Hill line north of Don Mills Centre is a much better way of reaching RHC than an extension of the Yonge Subway. The best way to relieve the Yonge line is to get people from York Region onto a route that better serves their needs (faster), which in turn opens up capacity for Toronto riders.

I was also thinking of the Cambridge-Guelph line as a part of the Grand River LRT network, but regional rail makes a lot of sense there too.

Again, yup, using mainline technology allows the line to be used by Toronto-bound GO trains, as well as potentially by an O-Train style DMU or EMU from Kitchener to Guelph and from Guelph to Cambridge. The Ion LRT would form the 3rd side of that transit triangle. Smaller stations could be added that could be served only by the DMU service. For example, in Guelph between Fife and Imperial, in Guelph at Elmira, and in Kitchener at Lancaster. None of those stations make sense in a regional rail context, but they do make sense in terms of a local DMU service.

The corridor from Cambridge to Guelph would need quite a bit of work in order to be commuter rail ready, but it would still be significantly less expensive than most other rail-based transit options between those two cities.
 
Good stuff. And I see your Distillery station as you mentioned in the Queens Quay East thread... makes sense. I’m just surprised a Midtown corridor wasn’t added. Do you think it has any use in our future, or is the demand simply not there?
 
Good stuff. And I see your Distillery station as you mentioned in the Queens Quay East thread... makes sense.

Thanks. And yes, I think the express-local combination that the GO REX and Waterfront LRT provide is more than sufficient for that area. Both the Distillery District and the West Donlands would be within walking distance of Distillery Station for travel to Union, while the Queen LRT would also run along Cherry, for people bound for the northern end of the CBD.

I’m just surprised a Midtown corridor wasn’t added. Do you think it has any use in our future, or is the demand simply not there?

The Midtown corridor is tricky IMO, because it relies so much on freight operations being moved elsewhere. Unlike sections of the Milton line through Mississauga, widening the corridor through Toronto would be quite difficult. That isn't to say that widening through Mississauga won't be a challenge, but through Toronto would be harder. I definitely see a value in it if the freight operations can be moved elsewhere and the tracks can be used exclusively by GO, but I don't think it's worth the investment to widen the corridor.

Besides, one of the goals of the Midtown corridor is to relieve the pressure at Union, which under this scheme the Central Tunnel is already doing. With that reason defunct, the Midtown corridor's main ridership would be people who want a semi-express alternative to the Bloor-Danforth Subway. Also, the Mississauga to Scarborough trip pattern, which the Midtown corridor would serve, is already served by the E2 train in this scheme. So it's really only people from Mississauga bound for Midtown Toronto that would be inconvenienced by the lack of that corridor, and even then a combined Transitway + ECLRT trip would serve that, or E2 to Jane and transferring onto the St. Clair Streetcar.

So in summary, if the corridor can be acquired through diversion of freight operations, then yes it would be a nice addition to the network. But if significant upgrades to the corridor need to take place in order to allow for GO operations, then I don't think it's a worthwhile expense.
 
Idea.

What about gondola connectors? Some cities include it in transit now.

Such as a gondola connection between Castlefrank TTC and a future Don Valley GO RER station. The gondola seems easier to do from Castlefrank than from Broadview. That's a very short cheap gondola run and could provide a "DRL lite" supplement, especially if RER trains are frequent (5 min peak, 15 min offpeak) providing a quick alternate way to get to/from downtown, and bypassing the YUS subway. Also, gondola connections could also help Ontario Place if they build condos there.
 
Last edited:
The Midtown corridor is tricky IMO, because it relies so much on freight operations being moved elsewhere. Unlike sections of the Milton line through Mississauga, widening the corridor through Toronto would be quite difficult. That isn't to say that widening through Mississauga won't be a challenge, but through Toronto would be harder.
According to Google Earth, I see lots of space where they seemed to have had provisions (or discontinued) a 4th track in the downtown section of this corridor. You have to get further away from downtown to see some really thorny stuff. Most difficult part though is the parts passing over Dufferin, it seems. Big tangle and trainyard west of Dufferin could be a challenge to reorganize to prevent crossings with GO RER. Give 2 tracks to CN and 2 tracks to GO, and that's enough to run electric GO RER bidirectionally across midtown while CN being able to do the same. Throw a few bones to CN like improved track and signalling, to allow them to give up some sections of 3-tracks (to free up a track for GO) while still moving freight trains at higher speed in exchange for letting Metrolinx occasionally use these improved track as passing track in case of GO RER stalls, etc. Biggest challenge will be finding places for platforms at stations and preventing crossings with freight tracks -- these will be the biggest issue. An expensive underground section may be required to bypass the trainyard if no simple way to avoid freight crossovers. If you simply do underground GO track along some "challenging" sections (not all), you can still share the corridor between CN and GO. No need to move freight elsewhere. But altogether, a solvable problem, and corridor width seems to be less of a problem than this (except the tightness I see near Dufferin, but I think that still can fit 4 track). Midtown is an easier problem than some of your fantasy GO routes, so I think Midtown should be reconsidered.

I spent half an hour exploring Google Earth Online, scrolling the CN track. Ironically, it seems easier to share the CN corridor with GO during the downtown section (4-tracking it) than through the big yard past Dufferin (The Junction, near Dufferin Park) due to lots of crossovers. That's where I think a section GO Tunnel will be needed to prevent crossing over CN tracks. Once additional track is added, CN can use the central two tracks and GO can use the outer tracks (for easier platform access), until it reaches the complex parts, where the GOtrains starts entering an underground tunnel to go under CN tracks/trainyards, and re-emerging somewhere past. This would be a expensive multi-hundred-million project to solve a thorny problem, but allows CN to keep using the corridor, while giving us yet another crosstown line within walking distance of those well north of Bloor. In the downtown and near-downtown there appears to be some sections of trail on the midtown line that was formerly extra track that's since been removed, but there's padding between that and the still-used tracks. If the overpasses are rebuilt, the trail can be kept but narrowed while being pushed further south in order to re-add a track. GO would have to appease that, but would at least accomplish the Midtown line while not kicking freight off the corridor. Some really complex overpass situations occur, but it looks like most expropriation can be avoided in the midtown corridor, with a creative package of slight north-south shifting of track, 4-tracking, walking-trail-shifting, usage of existing ROW width, and one or two (reasonably short) GO RER tunnel sections to bypass some unavoidable freight crossovers. You might know some things that I don't know, and I am missing some things. But it seems like Midtown is a more cheaply solvable problem than some of the fantasy routes on your map.

Once enough relief is added (DRL, SmartTrack), the crosstown line with a lot of infills would be important to bring lots of central Torontoians within walking distance of a rail line south of Eglington and north of Bloor, and create lots of connections with other TTC/GO interchanges. This adds a huge number of much-needed "transit loops" to Toronto's dedicated right-of-way rail public transit system. Building midtown before DRL/SmartTrack would probably overload the Yonge line, so probably DRL+SmartTrack needs to happen first before the midtown line, but as GO RER rolls out and people near it love it, demand for a midtown line will go up dramatically.

GO is too "starred", and there is not enough Union capacity to push all the people through Union (it reportedly can only accomodate about 3x expansion of train traffic after revitalization, and then we need the GO tunnel), so we need multiple satellite stations and ways to bypass Union (Paris has something like six large train stations, Toronto only has one). The Midtown line will go a very long way to "de-starring" the GO system and "gridding out" our transit with a lot more criss crosses. With lots more GO RER stations (e.g. SmartTrack density on all GO routes), we have a lot more 416 stations that brings demand to the GO midtown line. GO midtown (creativity without forcing CN to relocate) would still probably be less than the cost of Eglington Crosstown LRT, while gridding up our system much better more in par with Euro systems (Paris appears to have six large train stations (the type with at least half a dozen platforms) while Toronto appears to have only one large train station. We need to eventually get away from heavily starring the GO system through Union/downtown, and provide people more ways to get crosstown without going through Union, for reasons other than Union congestion, too. You can make GO crosstown a single-level-train electric route (subway sized trains), as it probably doesn't have traffic warranting bilevels. GO RER is considering a diversified fleet of trains, anyway...
 
Last edited:
Thought experiment.

What if SmartTrack is essentially the early beginnings of an 8th GO line, theoretically GO RER Eglinton?

Look at this map on page 18 of Metrolinx GO RER PDF. This theoretical 8th new GO line almost exactly between GO Kitchener and GO Milton, with nice-looking vertical spacing between the horizontal lines of Lakeshore, Milton, Eglinton(new) and Kitchener. Perfect alignment for a brand new western GO corridor that can continue to be extended over time. It also says Metrolinx and Toronto are establishing a joint program to advance SmartTrack as a major element to RER. So it is quite feasible and realistic that this is a brand new GO corridor. (Let's forget about brand names for now -- whether it's called GO REX, GO RER, SmartTrack, whatever -- Metrolinx has now defacto confirmed SmartTrack is GO RER, and if Ontario money is involved, Ontario will make sure SmartTrack is GO RER as a string attached to funding, even if it uses the SmartTrack "brand name")

Now wanted: New fantasy map of GO RER/REX Eglinton, extended beyond Airport Corporate.
 
Last edited:
Thought experiment.

What if SmartTrack is essentially the early beginnings of an 8th GO line, theoretically GO RER Eglinton?

Look at this map on page 18 of Metrolinx GO RER PDF. This theoretical 8th new GO line almost exactly between GO Kitchener and GO Milton, with nice-looking vertical spacing between the horizontal lines of Lakeshore, Milton, Eglinton(new) and Kitchener. Perfect alignment for a brand new western GO corridor that can continue to be extended over time. It also says Metrolinx and Toronto are establishing a joint program to advance SmartTrack as a major element to RER. So it is quite feasible and realistic that this is a brand new GO corridor. (Let's forget about brand names for now -- whether it's called GO REX, GO RER, SmartTrack, whatever -- Metrolinx has now defacto confirmed SmartTrack is GO RER, and if Ontario money is involved, Ontario will make sure SmartTrack is GO RER as a string attached to funding, even if it uses the SmartTrack "brand name")

Now wanted: New fantasy map of GO RER/REX Eglinton, extended beyond Airport Corporate.

Hmm, a GO RER line with a station at Hurontario and Eglinton. That is one way to expand Mississauga's downtown core north of the highway up to and around Eglinton in the long-term.
 
Thought experiment:

What if SmartTrack was built today. Imagine the swaths of Chinese restaurants that would be within walking distance of rapid transit! I could take the Eglinton Crosstown to Kennedy, then take ST north to Finch or Steeles, go to Pacific Mall or the plazas at Finch & Midland! Maybe they should add a stop at McNicoll so people can get off and eat at the restaurants there.

This "build rapid transit to delicious food" planning criteria is far better than the current "build rapid transit to affordable furniture & monkey encounter zone" strategy.
 
When the crosstown opens, I hope they will at least merge both of the Mt Pleasant buses (103 and 74) into one route terminating at St Clair station.
Yes please! It annoys me so much when I'm going from St Clair to Sherwood on Mount Pleasant, and miss the connection at Eglinton by seconds.
 
When the crosstown opens, I hope they will at least merge both of the Mt Pleasant buses (103 and 74) into one route terminating at St Clair station.

I think it'd be really cool if they could merge all the routes immediately east of Yonge:



I merge 75 Sherboroune with the Jarvis route such that a direct connection the Bloor-Danforth can be made. Likewise the new route takes over the Yonge Blvd routing of the 97 to York Mills Stn for a direct YUS connection. Thoughts?
 
^^ That actually seems like a really good plan and it pretty much improves the commute of everyone affected on that large route.

Plus by merging of all these routes together, we likely won't need to find (many) new buses in order to increase frequency.
 
They need more North-South frequent continuous bus routes in general.

Like Bayview. Instead of going to Davisville station, keep running south on Bayview to the new Pan Am Village area.
 
They need more North-South frequent continuous bus routes in general.

Like Bayview. Instead of going to Davisville station, keep running south on Bayview to the new Pan Am Village area.

Agreed. Bus Route 28 has to be one of the most pointless routes out there. It doesn't even stop anywhere on Davisville aside from the one stop at Mt. Pleasant.

028map.gif


Route 28 and Route 11 should be merged and have added frequency going down to Pan Am Village and Route 14 (Chaplin-Glencairn) should be expanded to Davisville&Bayview, and also have increased frequency between Bayview and the new Chaplin Station on Eglinton. Currently you wait forever for a bus on Davisville and there is both a sizable middle school and many many large apartment block towers on the route.
 

Attachments

  • 028map.gif
    028map.gif
    23.6 KB · Views: 990
Hmm, a GO RER line with a station at Hurontario and Eglinton. That is one way to expand Mississauga's downtown core north of the highway up to and around Eglinton in the long-term.
Looking at the map.
Then cross-referencing with Google Satellite View.

I just realized... SmartTrack alignment is aligned in such a way that makes Airport Corporate only two SmartTrack stops away from a theoretical Missisagua Square One stop!

Airport Corporate Centre is only as far away from Mississauga Square One, as Airport Corporate Centre is from when it spurs out of the Kingston line (just before Weston). So that's a relatively short extension. That brings a theoretical Square One tunnel for far less price than the Scarborough subway extension!

They could bend it slightly south (after Airport Corporate or a subsequent stop such as Dixie/Tomken -- another obvious first stop for a SmartTrack extension) into the north edge of downtown, or even the existing GO bus station there. That makes SmartTrack even more brilliant (assuming province forces the use of longer GO RER trains instead of tiny UPX trains, as a condition of funding Tory). SmartTrack would continue onwards and interchange GO Milton Erindale(existing) or GO Milton Eglington(new). If SmartTrack reaches both Mississauga downtown (only needs doubling of the Eglington spur length), and the extension to interchange with GO Milton (only needs a tripling of the Eglington spur length).

Downtown Missisauga/Square One gets a subway via a small SmartTrack extension costing far less than the Scarborough subway, even if it has to be underground all the way from Airport Corporate! (15-min allday, 5-min peak underground GO RER trains that are branded as "SmartTrack" or other brandname)

So, within less than one generation -- we can catch a "subway" from Mississauga downtown to Scarborough downtown, if living in one and working in the other. Faster than by car.

Tory, brilliant, Tory. (whether you like him or not). He's thinking more ahead than I thought.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top