Transit Fantasy Maps

[innsertnamehere]

Seaton is going to be starting sewage and road work next summer, with the first houses going in sometime in 2016, so its coming. It also isn't really aimed at downtown commuters, the 407 is supposed to be its main artery, not the 401 corridor. The Havelock GO line is not going to exist for a long, long time.

Its also interesting to see Pickering so enthusiastic about it given how the province essentially forced Seaton onto Pickering against its will. I guess you have to make the best of what you have, right?

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Seaton is going to be starting sewage and road work next summer, with the first houses going in sometime in 2016, so its coming. It also isn't really aimed at downtown commuters, the 407 is supposed to be its main artery, not the 401 corridor. The Havelock GO line is not going to exist for a long, long time.

Its also interesting to see Pickering so enthusiastic about it given how the province essentially forced Seaton onto Pickering against its will. I guess you have to make the best of what you have, right?

Haha that's one way of looking at it, for the more optimistic among us. I would really not characterize Pickering as enthusiastic about Seaton though - most of the people that I've talked to about it, and I have talked to enough of them through my involvement in local politics, are either unaware of the project or aren't too happy about 60,000 new residents

Furthermore, dependent upon the results of the municipal election and how much citizen opposition Seaton produces, the plans have the very real possibility of being stalled. Wouldn't be the first time that Pickering shuts down a wasteful mega-project shoved upon it by a higher level of government.

Anyways, all that is politics, and besides the point. The GO line in question is the Belleville Subdivision, not Havelock, and so I'd hope to see service on that line possible sooner than Havelock. Though you're right that Seaton is intended to be non-downtown-dependent, there's no way that we can guarantee that that'll be the case. If any sizeable portion of its residents work downtown - and it's not at all inconceivable that that will be the case - we need to give them a serious transit option, and right off the bat. Letting thousands of new residents in cars stream down Brock Road towards Pickering GO would be mind boggling - and would only confirm that some of our biggest concerns about Seaton would prove true.

 

[gweed123]

Anyways, all that is politics, and besides the point. The GO line in question is the Belleville Subdivision, not Havelock, and so I'd hope to see service on that line possible sooner than Havelock. Though you're right that Seaton is intended to be non-downtown-dependent, there's no way that we can guarantee that that'll be the case. If any sizeable portion of its residents work downtown - and it's not at all inconceivable that that will be the case - we need to give them a serious transit option, and right off the bat. Letting thousands of new residents in cars stream down Brock Road towards Pickering GO would be mind boggling - and would only confirm that some of our biggest concerns about Seaton would prove true.

I suppose that one interim option would be to do something similar to what Burlington Transit does. They have several Park N Ride lots along Dundas Street that offer pretty much express rides down to the nearest GO station. GO or DRT could set up the Park N Ride lot at Taunton & Brock now, with buses running express to Pickering Station, and then when the GO REX line comes in along the Belleville Subdivision the parking lot and bus loop is already there.

Granted this wouldn't be an ideal solution, but at least it would divert some of the parking demand off Pickering Station itself and onto a satellite station.

 

[sixrings]

Here's my latest GO REX map. The biggest change I made on this map is switching from having the colouring be line-based, to being based on the service type. This means that all main GO REX lines are green, all GO REX Toronto lines are red, and all GO+ lines are blue. I find it's a much easier way to display the various lines, especially coming into Union, which would otherwise be an absolute spaghetti of lines (10 GO lines by my count).

The content of the map is pretty similar to what I've shown on my previous maps, with only a few minor alterations. Some of the changes are:

1) Addition of GO+ branch to Cambridge via the Kitchener line.
2) Addition of Peterborough GO+ line (low priority, but worth showing none the less).
3) Addition of a GO REX line on the Barrie line, allowing for a more express-style GO+ service all the way from Barrie.

Let me know if you have any questions/comments!

[/url]

Where did the Kipling and Rexdale GO stop Go????????????????????

 

[gweed123]

Where did the Kipling and Rexdale GO stop Go????????????????????

Oh crap, you're right! I skipped the Islington stop. I prefer the stop at Islington as opposed to Kipling personally, because I think it's closer to a lot more people. By moving that stop further east, it also allows a stop at Woodbine (Highway 27) without being too close together. I'll make that change, thanks for noticing!

 

[sixrings]

Oh crap, you're right! I skipped the Islington stop. I prefer the stop at Islington as opposed to Kipling personally, because I think it's closer to a lot more people. By moving that stop further east, it also allows a stop at Woodbine (Highway 27) without being too close together. I'll make that change, thanks for noticing!

I know it sounds silly but I prefer the Kipling stop because there is one at the moment. Because the Mississauga bus terminal is moving to kipling. And because Humber is at Kipling... I guess I just think that if there ever is going to be a BRT on either Kipling or Islington I think it will more likely be Kipling. As a result I like the major stops being there.

 

[gweed123]

I know it sounds silly but I prefer the Kipling stop because there is one at the moment. Because the Mississauga bus terminal is moving to kipling. And because Humber is at Kipling... I guess I just think that if there ever is going to be a BRT on either Kipling or Islington I think it will more likely be Kipling. As a result I like the major stops being there.

Good points. My rationale is this: A station at Woodbine (Highway 27) would be beneficial because the Finch West LRT can conceivably be extended there, from Humber College down Highway 27. Hits some pretty sizeable trip generators (Woodbine Mall and Woodbine Racetrack primarily). This would create some good counter-peak flow along the line, instead of having everything except Humber College students heading eastbound in the AM peak. It would also be a good transfer station for Pearson-bound trains, if the UPX ever gets rolled into the GO REX system.

If you're looking for a good N-S BRT corridor it's actually probably Highway 27 as well. There's plenty of ROW room, and it could connect very easily to the 427 section of the Mississauga Transitway. A BRT on Kipling or Islington would probably need expropriation, whether it be for dedicated lanes or queue jump lanes at intersections.

A station at Islington would not only create a larger separation between it and the Woodbine station, but it also opens up the potential for a pretty easy train <-> bus transfer station in that little triangle between the rail corridor, the 401, and Islington. I'm thinking specifically for GO buses, having a GO REX station right off the 401 would be pretty big.

 

[innsertnamehere]

seaton is well past the point of no return at this point, its happening. Municipal permits have been issued from my understanding, its a go.

 

[WislaHD]

seaton is well past the point of no return at this point, its happening. Municipal permits have been issued from my understanding, its a go.

That's news to me. Somebody should be updating the Seaton thread whenever there is development.

I have mixed feelings on the idea of Seaton but I find it a really cool prospect to watch the development of a whole new town from scratch.

 

[sixrings]

Good points. My rationale is this: A station at Woodbine (Highway 27) would be beneficial because the Finch West LRT can conceivably be extended there, from Humber College down Highway 27. Hits some pretty sizeable trip generators (Woodbine Mall and Woodbine Racetrack primarily). This would create some good counter-peak flow along the line, instead of having everything except Humber College students heading eastbound in the AM peak. It would also be a good transfer station for Pearson-bound trains, if the UPX ever gets rolled into the GO REX system.

If you're looking for a good N-S BRT corridor it's actually probably Highway 27 as well. There's plenty of ROW room, and it could connect very easily to the 427 section of the Mississauga Transitway. A BRT on Kipling or Islington would probably need expropriation, whether it be for dedicated lanes or queue jump lanes at intersections.

A station at Islington would not only create a larger separation between it and the Woodbine station, but it also opens up the potential for a pretty easy train <-> bus transfer station in that little triangle between the rail corridor, the 401, and Islington. I'm thinking specifically for GO buses, having a GO REX station right off the 401 would be pretty big.

My wife works at Kipling and Rexdale and we live on eglinton. Theoretically she could get to work with only one transfer. Of course if Eglinton West LRT happens to pearson I am happy with that solution as well... Looking at things now going forward all her options to getting to work from Eglinton and allen is 2 transfers. That or buy a car which is what will likely happen without an extension or a kipling stop. But one woman cant make all the decisions even if she does in my own house.

 

[gweed123]

My wife works at Kipling and Rexdale and we live on eglinton. Theoretically she could get to work with only one transfer. Of course if Eglinton West LRT happens to pearson I am happy with that solution as well... Looking at things now going forward all her options to getting to work from Eglinton and allen is 2 transfers. That or buy a car which is what will likely happen without an extension or a kipling stop. But one woman cant make all the decisions even if she does in my own house.

Yes, my proposal is predicated on a western extension of the Eglinton LRT to Pearson, or at least Renforth Gateway. Her trip would still only be 1 transfer, but it would involve a local bus instead of two rapid transit lines, so I think your car purchase decision is safe .

A lot of GO stations are located in places of least resistance, not necessarily because it was the ideal place to put a station. When you look at the Kipling GO station for example, it's located under the hydro corridor. Many of the GO stations along the Lakeshore West line are located roughly mid-block between concession roads, my guess is because that's where the land was available at the time. Many of those stations have been built up to the point where moving them would be uneconomical, but there isn't really very much at Kipling compared to other GO stations. It's really just an asphalt pad with a few larger bus shelters on it. It's also a side platform, which is inconvenient for true bidirectional GO travel (I don't know what the upgrade plans are for the station, if any).

 

[sixrings]

Yes, my proposal is predicated on a western extension of the Eglinton LRT to Pearson, or at least Renforth Gateway. Her trip would still only be 1 transfer, but it would involve a local bus instead of two rapid transit lines, so I think your car purchase decision is safe .
.

Im good with that. She never complains about the Kipling bus, in fact she loves the express, it is the eglinton route which often is a b word. Even with the new lrt which will make the worst part better it is off set by the new crappy transfer scheduled for mount dennis. We like to avoid cars.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

seaton is well past the point of no return at this point, its happening. Municipal permits have been issued from my understanding, its a go.

Municipal permits can be issued ad nauseum but the fact remains that Seaton doesn't exist yet and until it does there is room for debate, especially if we get a less-developer-friendly municipal government after October. In Durham at least we're tired of "it's a done deal in which you had no say, so shut up about it" - the airport really soured us all on that mentality. Anyhow. Maybe if there is a Seaton thread (I haven't seen one before but I've also only been a member since February) we can continue this discussion there?

 

[gweed123]

Im good with that. She never complains about the Kipling bus, in fact she loves the express, it is the eglinton route which often is a b word. Even with the new lrt which will make the worst part better it is off set by the new crappy transfer scheduled for mount dennis. We like to avoid cars.

Definitely. A transfer midway along a natural travel route is a PITA. It's in essence creating another Don Mills Station at Mt. Dennis. I think once the 1st Phase opens, people will complain about the transfer and the Western section will get moved up the priority list, especially considering it's not a super complex project in the grand scheme of things: It won't require a new yard, it won't require any tunnelling, and the vast majority of it will likely be (unfortunately) at-grade. It's low hanging fruit to get more rapid transit built quickly.

 

[Hopkins123]

Here's my latest iteration of a fantasy map of what the rapid transit system could look like in the next 50-100 years. It incorporates a lot of what's already on the books (John Tory's SmartTrack and Peel Region's BRT Transitway and Hurontario-Main LRT) as well as a few fantasy elements such as routing a DRL from Seneca College to Mimico/Lakeshore via Don Mills-Pape-Queen Street/Queensway and Lakeshore; and Sheppard rapid transit (could be a converted LRT) extended east to McCowan Rd and west to the Woodbine Centre via Finch. The Crosstown Line is also extended east to U of T Scarborough Campus, the Bloor-Danforth extended both ways: west to Square One and east to Morningside Heights via the Seaton ail corridor, and the Yonge Line is extended to Richmond Hill Centre.

Thoughts or suggestions are welcome.