Transit Fantasy Maps

[TheTigerMaster]

Network 2011 Had Eglinton as a subway to Eglinton west Station.

Can some get a picture of the entire richview corridor? I can't find a good one on google images. It's north of Eglinton correct?

I'm on my phone so I can't attach a good image. But look at Eglinton/Islington area to see the corridor.

Regarding Network 2011, the planned Eglinton West Subway didn't go all the way to Richview. But I do recall seeing a setup similar to the Allen Road subway. Eglinton would have been made into an expressway with a subway (or other RT) down the middle.

I don't think this setup would work today. The days of building expressways are long gone. And I don't think that a Richview Expressway makes any sense without Allen Expressway downtown.

 

[Rainforest]

Thing is I can already see the bus routes to eglinton increasing ridership because of the new option there, rather then going all the way to bloor. And I am assume the Eglinton West exsention will be open in 2030, the western Routes like Royal York Will increase in ridership as well. The density is not immediate but the bus transfer is what will put in high ridership territory.

That's my concern as well. However, it will be mitigated if one or two east-west lines of comparable speed and reliability are built north of Eglinton. For example, Finch LRT and something on Wilson or Lawrence. In that case, riders from the north will not need to transfer via Eglinton, they will be able to short-cut to Spadina subway using one of those new routes.

 

[Rainforest]

That and the huge amount of employment near Pearson Airport.

Travelling on 401 between 410 and 404 can easily take 60-90 minutes each way westbound in the morning and eastbound in the afternoon. People working near Pearson Airport will want to avoid that. This could easily overload light rail.

I am less concerned about demand caused by the airport employment. It is a significant employment node, but nevertheless it is several times smaller than downtown. Furthermore, workers come to the airport from all directions, and only the eastern flow can be served by Eglinton LRT. In contrast, downtown is bounded by the lake in the south, and the subway network forces a lot of riders coming from many directions to converge onto the two downtown subway links.

Therefore, I expect the airport employment bound flow to be a small fraction of downtown bound, hence it should not be difficult for LRT to handle.

That said, I do not object at all to increased grade separation in the west of Eglinton, by using the Richview corridor. That is, if the relevant land strips are not sold out yet.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Even if the land strips were sold I'd have no problem with the city expropriating them as long as it wasn't prohibitively expensive. As far as I know there is a small strip of townhouses under construction in the corridor. It wouldn't cost more than a few million dollars to get rid of them.

In the meanwhile there needs to be a moratorium on selling property on the corridor. I'm amazed that the property for the townhouses were allowed to be sold given that there's a rapid transit route planned for that location.

 

[andrewpmk]

I am less concerned about demand caused by the airport employment. It is a significant employment node, but nevertheless it is several times smaller than downtown. Furthermore, workers come to the airport from all directions, and only the eastern flow can be served by Eglinton LRT. In contrast, downtown is bounded by the lake in the south, and the subway network forces a lot of riders coming from many directions to converge onto the two downtown subway links.

Therefore, I expect the airport employment bound flow to be a small fraction of downtown bound, hence it should not be difficult for LRT to handle.

That said, I do not object at all to increased grade separation in the west of Eglinton, by using the Richview corridor. That is, if the relevant land strips are not sold out yet.

It's true that the Eglinton line wouldn't do much for people working near the airport coming from the west, north or south (though the Hurontario LRT would help with this) but traffic congestion caused by people in Toronto commuting to Mississauga and elsewhere in the western GTA is bad. There is a reason that 401 WB, 427 towards 401, and Gardiner WB are terrible in morning rush hour (and the reverse in the afternoon). Extending Eglinton to Square One would also help people who live at Square One and work in Toronto. The combination of Eglinton line to Pearson Airport Terminal 1, Eglinton line replacing the Mississauga Transitway to Square One, and Hurontario LRT puts a substantial percentage of Mississauga's office parks and industrial areas within walking distance of those two lines.

It is a really dumb idea not grade separating the western part of Eglinton if there is a large right of way intended for a cancelled expressway to use. The Mississauga Transitway is not costing very much even though the eastern portion east of Hurontario is fully grade separated. Then, with the western portion grade separated, the eastern end of Eglinton should be elevated. That way there is little risk of overcrowding being a problem on the Eglinton line.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I don't think Eglinton will have that much of an imact on Mississauga commuters. The trip times from Square One to Yonge is about one hour. For those people it would be better for them to use the Lakeshore GO Line.

 

[BurlOak]

There's only so much money to go around. I'm somewhat confident that this western portion will be built by Toronto if Stintz or more probably Chow is elected mayor in 2014. From what Ive read, both campaigns will have a huge focus on huge transit expansion.

Considering that elevating Eglinton West was not part of Stintz's OneCity plan, and the fact that she never talked about elevation (she even had a quote that only underground is a subway), I wonder where your optimism comes from.
I have yet to hear much from Chow, but I would guess there must be a statement of support for Transit City in there somewhere - and by definition that means in the median.

 

[andrewpmk]

People commuting from within Mississauga to the airport area, or from Mississauga to somewhere north of downtown, could use an extended Eglinton line.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Considering that elevating Eglinton West was not part of Stintz's OneCity plan, and the fact that she never talked about elevation (she even had a quote that only underground is a subway), I wonder where your optimism comes from.

Eglinton West was part of OneCity:

And my optimism comes from the fact that transit expansion will be the major focus of this campaign.

I have yet to hear much from Chow, but I would guess there must be a statement of support for Transit City in there somewhere - and by definition that means in the median.

At this point we know nothing solid about Chow's campaigns. But given that Chow is the NDP transport critic, the political dynamics at play and some of the rumours we've been hearing, I would be very surprised if her campaign doesn't have a major transportation focus. I'm not expecting her to come out and endorse TC as you suggest. That would be a bad political move.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I wouldn't be surprised if her transit policy is on hold currently until the provincial spring budget is passed (election or not) as that will majorly change what they will be promising.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Yup.

Even Stitnz $28 Billion One City will have to be reworked now that the province has committed to funding approximately $9 Billion of the projects in OneCity (Yonge + Relief Line)

 

[Dan416]

I don't think Eglinton will have that much of an imact on Mississauga commuters. The trip times from Square One to Yonge is about one hour. For those people it would be better for them to use the Lakeshore GO Line.

I'm sorry but that must be the silliest comment I've seen from you.

I agree with you that Eglinton should be able to be handled by LRT over the whole line (if they were just building the underground portion, subway would do fine, as the vehicles are cheaper).

But suggesting that Mississaugans would take the Lakeshore line is just crazy. The vast majority of Misissaugans are nowhere near Port Credit, Clarkson or Long Branch GO stations and it is not a feasible alternative to the Milton line or TTC (depending on where you live).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'm sorry but that must be the silliest comment I've seen from you.

I agree with you that Eglinton should be able to be handled by LRT over the whole line (if they were just building the underground portion, subway would do fine, as the vehicles are cheaper).

But suggesting that Mississaugans would take the Lakeshore line is just crazy. The vast majority of Misissaugans are nowhere near Port Credit, Clarkson or Long Branch GO stations and it is not a feasible alternative to the Milton line or TTC (depending on where you live).

I'm not as familiar with Mississauga transit operations as I am with Toronto's so please forgive my ignorance on the subject.

When I made my comment I was assuming that the Hurontario/Main LRT would be in operation. I presume that would encourage more riders to use GO, since it would be a rather quick trip from anywhere along Hurontario towards Port Credit or Milton GO and then about 35 minutes to Union from either GO station.

And any benefit from extending Eglinton west into Mississauga will probably be mitigated by the Mississauga Transitway.

 

[BurlOak]

Considering that elevating Eglinton West was not part of Stintz's OneCity plan, and the fact that she never talked about elevation (she even had a quote that only underground is a subway), I wonder where your optimism comes from.
I have yet to hear much from Chow, but I would guess there must be a statement of support for Transit City in there somewhere - and by definition that means in the median.

Eglinton West was part of OneCity:

For the past few pages, we have been talking about ELEVATED or GRADE-SEPARATED transit on Eglinton West. IT was not part of Stintz's plan.

Yup.
Even Stitnz $28 Billion One City will have to be reworked now that the province has committed to funding approximately $9 Billion of the projects in OneCity (Yonge + Relief Line)

It seems kind of strange that Stintz wants a pile of money for OneCity and then as the money starts to come in, she need to rework the plan. It would just be an indication of her constant flip-flopping.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

There's only so much money to go around. I'm somewhat confident that this western portion will be built by Toronto if Stintz or more probably Chow is elected mayor in 2014. From what Ive read, both campaigns will have a huge focus on huge transit expansion.

Let's hope so.

I'm on my phone so I can't attach a good image. But look at Eglinton/Islington area to see the corridor.

Regarding Network 2011, the planned Eglinton West Subway didn't go all the way to Richview. But I do recall seeing a setup similar to the Allen Road subway. Eglinton would have been made into an expressway with a subway (or other RT) down the middle.

I don't think this setup would work today. The days of building expressways are long gone. And I don't think that a Richview Expressway makes any sense without Allen Expressway downtown.

I don't mean build a highway now. I just mean when Eglinton West in 1985 was a subway and now nothing (for now) And maybe LRT coming up. I just think we needed a link to the airport yesterday. It should be a priority like the DRL.