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Transit City: Sheppard East Debate

kEiThZ said:
Suggesting that being against a certain LRT project automatically means you are not loyal to your city is a bit like suggesting somebody is unpatriotic because they don't support a certain war or armed conflict.
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My city, right or wrong!
 
UD2 said:
I love my city and I think it's one of the best places to live in the world. To add to that I think our mayor is doing a decent job and the city is moving it self in the correct direction in terms of transit, urban development, and the overall.

So... yeah. I guess I deserve the best.

you?
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Sorry but LRT isn't the best transit technology.

And I love when people say cities like Paris and London are building LRT. Umm, Paris and London already have FAR more expansive subways than Toronto. Toronto barely has any subway as is.
 
I wonder what Smitherman will do if/when he gets the Mayor's seat. I can't imagine him getting behind TC--it's just too rinky-dink.
 
We are building subway ... and TTC just put in their budget $5-million for the Yonge extension predesign, and another $5-million fo the Downtown Relief Line environmental assessment.

A good chunk of the Transit City $$$ is for the subway tunnel down Eglinton, equipment and yards.

However for the remaining $3-billion or so, we get 50-km or so of LRT, rather than 10-km of subway. Sure, if you were on the stretch that got the 10-km of subway ... then it's better than LRT. But if your on the other 4 stretches that won't get anything for decades.

Surely this is the best of both worlds ... subway construction AND LRT construction!
 
^ It's not as clear cut as it appears. If you attended the consultations for the Morningside LRT you'd have seen residents opposed to the LRT. There's not as much support for the projects as everyone thinks. And why would there be. It's common sense that Morningside is fine with buses. They could stand to increase frequencies a tad. But extending the BRT down Kingston to Morningside alone would have solved a lot of issues. Increasingly, small business owners who depend on drive by traffic are also worried about the impact of LRT lines. And they don't get the walk-in traffic that businesses on St. Clair or other downtown streetcar routes might. Add to that, a growing awareness among the drivers in the suburbs and TC is starting to get chinks in its armour.

It's not that TC doesn't have some sensible routes. I think Finch West, Waterfront West, Jane and Don Mills are great. The rest are debatable. If the TTC can't managed the Queen streetcar, what makes anybody think they'll be able to manage a glorified streetcar line that's twice as long on Eglinton.

So it's logical that some of us might think subway construction makes more sense even if we don't live directly along the corridor. Local context should matter more than some sentiment about how we all get more if we trade in subways for LRTs.
 
But you also know how it goes with these public meetings. Those that are against it, are much more likely to show up and say something, than those that are for it. And even when those that support it are there, the ones making the noise are the oppenents. I've been to public meetings of projects I've supported ... and there's really very litte to say but to ask a few questions ... and all the noise in the room are those opposing it ... even for no-brainer projects like the routine replacement of track.
 
nfitz said:
But you also know how it goes with these public meetings. Those that are against it, are much more likely to show up and say something, than those that are for it. And even when those that support it are there, the ones making the noise are the oppenents. I've been to public meetings of projects I've supported ... and there's really very litte to say but to ask a few questions ... and all the noise in the room are those opposing it ... even for no-brainer projects like the routine replacement of track.
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I agree this is true, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a dumb idea. You need to consider the arguments made, not just the people making the arguments. Yes, there are NIMBYs on Sheppard East who don't want an LRT. It doesn't mean that they're wrong that a subway is preferable. They might be using the wrong arguments, but they're right without knowing it.
 
UD2 said:
I love my city and I think it's one of the best places to live in the world. To add to that I think our mayor is doing a decent job and the city is moving it self in the correct direction in terms of transit, urban development, and the overall.

So... yeah. I guess I deserve the best.

you?
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I never questionned your love for this city, but calling Miller and his 2nd rate transit plan the best...this is ......well that's your opinion
 
nfitz said:
But you also know how it goes with these public meetings. Those that are against it, are much more likely to show up and say something, than those that are for it. And even when those that support it are there, the ones making the noise are the oppenents. I've been to public meetings of projects I've supported ... and there's really very litte to say but to ask a few questions ... and all the noise in the room are those opposing it ... even for no-brainer projects like the routine replacement of track.
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Well the concerns were sufficient to send the TTC back to the drawing board. Have you seen what they proposed for the intersection of Kingston and Morningside? I don't think this is one of those instances where it's a few cranks getting air time. There were tons of angry people at that meeting. There was also a lot of concern about the amount of expropriation they were planning from homes along south Morningside (West Hill). If you look at the plans, it's certainly not trivial. The more people here about the line, the less they support it in that area.

Now I am not saying that all of TC is like that. Heck, I'll be the first to admit that tons of Malvernites east of Markham will support the SELRT. After all, when it's running through backyards, how significant would the impact on the community be? But does that make the project a wise use of public funds? The other big aspect of support for the LRT comes from the fact that most people in Scarborough are just sick of getting second best when it comes to transit. They just want something built. They'll settle for anything better than the overcrowded LRT. I fear that Miller and Giambrone are preying on such sentiments to ram this project through.
 
I really hope miller lose the election. I have serious doubt any opponent would go ahead with Sheppard East without seriously modify it:
-800 m stops for almost subway speed with almost no red lights stops

-Stop at STC

or just build the subway in 2 phases or Downsview to STC.

Lastman proved that you can become mayor with massive support from the suburb, something Miller don't have right now and that is why he's pushing his cheap SELRT.

Anyone proposing a subway will easily win both North York and Scarborough...
 
^ I'd be careful to think that Miller has no support in the burbs. It's not true. His popularity is waning because of all those new fees and not much service improvements to show for it, but he's still not as unpopular as some make him out to be.
 
kEiThZ said:
^ I'd be careful to think that Miller has no support in the burbs. It's not true. His popularity is waning because of all those new fees and not much service improvements to show for it, but he's still not as unpopular as some make him out to be.
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If you get the suburs to vote, he does not have support. Last time he won because the vote % was very weak.
 
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