Ford's 'must be underground' mantra is as infuriating as the 'must be streetcar ROW' mantra he's trying to shove aside...but Ford should know that the TTC's recent obsession with tunnels is one of the things
holding back subway construction. Yes, we know people prefer subways, but when was the last time public opinion got a transit project built? Public opinion is irrelevant when consultation consists of displaying to people what's already been decided and then taking the words of the ten people who showed up at the event as the Gospel of Everyone. The point here is that putting anything 10 metres under the street will cost a lot of money, as we're seeing with Eglinton and Spadina. Got a valley? Elevate through the valley. Got a strip of grass or vast swath of parking lots? Trench it or maybe even look at some surface running. Yes, these options are good enough, and doing this on a system-wide scale will let us actually build all the lines people are drawing on napkins, and save billions of dollars along the way. The public would prefer a subway line that went outside sometimes.
Lines should be elevated in some places, typically to help ensure that lines are always as close as possible to the surface (the ideal). This saves a fortune and is best for riders. Some of Eglinton could be elevated east of Leaside. Same with parts of Sheppard, should have been with parts of Spadina, etc.
We're going to be subjected to months, if not years, of repetitive Sheppard vs Eglinton arguments and "Cancel this to pay for that" and so on. Here's some food for thought. There's reasons Eglinton was only cited to move 8% larger peak crowds than Sheppard east of Don Mills (5400 vs 5000). One reason, of course, is that these projections change daily according to whether or not assumptions A, C, and E were used instead of B, D, and F.
But the more important reason is simply the reality that one corridor is not overwhelmingly more important than the other. Eglinton is not the lifeblood of this city. Ooo, blasphemy! People in Peel are not going to transfer to the Eglinton line in any quantity. A downtown-airport rail link would eat up the to-airport crowds. The busiest point on Eglinton is east of Kennedy and that may never get built. Of course Eglinton would likely move more total people than Sheppard, but only because it's so long - much longer than Sheppard. But Sheppard could be made longer by running from Downsview along Finch West and even along, say, Ellesmere. Those corridors see no less current bus ridership than Eglinton and they'd connect more things than Eglinton would. Either way, we need to recognize that no, one is not sooo necessary and the other sooo not necessary. They're a lot closer than most are willing to admit (because then what else would people have to fight about on the internet?). Kill Eglinton for Sheppard or Sheppard for Eglinton? Meh, whatever.
I have no serious issues with ditching Eglinton to finish Sheppard, but I know other people disagree. That's fine. Ditching Sheppard to build Eglinton would be fine, too. Eglinton doesn't have an unfinished subway and it's just a feeder route. Scorning Eglinton a second time, though, would be kind of rude and congestion is a genuine transit problem, especially around the Allen. However, the real shame is that we're not going forward with the more pressing projects like the DRL, Danforth to STC, or Yonge, all of which would move bigger crowds and would fill key gaps in the rapid transit network in growing places where people are going. We need those and GO expansion and basic bus improvements before we need Sheppard or Eglinton. Still, even if Sheppard was 5th on your list of priorities, getting it first doesn't make it bad. Same thing happened with Spadina. It all has less to do with the merits or details of Sheppard or Eglinton or any other project and more to do with seething feudal jealousy and intense hatred of...what, Mike Harris? Not that one project can begin only after the other has finished.
Danforth to STC makes sense in that it's in the grey zone between LRT and HRT. Don't be under any illusions though. STC is not the destination for the overwhelming majority of people using any hypothetical Danforth extension. Just like Sheppard users, most want to head to the core. The only difference is that there are about 3-4 times the number of people that would use it compared to a complete Sheppard.
I was talking more about the gungho attitude that you and many other Sheppard crazies hold that Sheppard subway to STC only makes sense while ignoring any reality that it would be a black hole in the city budget for generations to come.
Even ignoring that demand along Sheppard is nowhere remotely close to subway requirements, "peak" periods at malls occur at times where 'transit that doesn't have the mega capacity or expense of subways' could easily handle it.
There's also the question of the types of jobs at suburban malls like this. How many M-F 9-5 jobs are there? How many are shift jobs that have smaller numbers of employees moving in and out at several points during the day throughout the entire week?
The former type in large concentrations is efficient to serve via high capacity mass transit. The latter type doesn't place nearly the same amount of peak stress on the transit system even if the absolute number of jobs were the same compared to downtown.
You're still embarrassing yourself. Where did I say the Danforth extension would be just for the mall? STC is the only place that makes the slightest bit of sense as a transfer point in Scarborough, and not just because the mall is the biggest trip generator in the borough. Ignore the mall: many bus routes pour into the SRT corridor, and most of these people see no benefit from spending billions of dollars revamping the SRT. Midland, Brimley, McCowan, Middlefield, Ellesmere, Highland Creek, Lawrence East...even many of the people on routes like Neilson or Milner. It's especially annoying on Lawrence East, where people have to transfer 3 minutes after getting on the RT.
I wasn't talking about a Sheppard extension in that post or I would have mentioned it. Extending it is not a priority when there's things like the DRL to build. The Danforth extension will not move 3-4 times what a completed Sheppard would, unless you think the Danforth extension will be moving like 300,000 or 400,000 people a day when it opens. Ridership will obviously go up in the SRT corridor, but not eightfold. That makes no sense.
The current 6.5km section sees around 4,000 passengers in its busiest hour and loses $10 million a year.
$50 million from the city budget each year maybe? For the next three generations? Possibly longer?
You have no idea what the current or future loss might be. Things aren't true just because you've Googled them. Realistic numbers make a big difference when you're bitching about operating losses. $50 million would cover the whole operating cost of the line before revenues are even counted - with millions to spare if we do things like change the fare scheme to get rid of collectors or not build the whole line underground. How much does the 85/190 currently lose? How much will the Sheppard LRT lose? And it will lose lots of money.
