Transit City Plan

[Electrify]

I agree. If stop spacing is an issue, the correct response is to adjust stop spacing, not to build an overly expensive tunnel. The same thing applies to any problems with transit priority at intersections.

This. However, the role of this thread was to assume that the only options are the two listed above since at this point in time they are the only two concrete plans: surface, lots of coverage, but with short stop spacing for slower speeds; or underground, limited coverage, and wider stop spacing for higher speeds.

 

[sixrings]

This. However, the role of this thread was to assume that the only options are the two listed above since at this point in time they are the only two concrete plans: surface, lots of coverage, but with short stop spacing for slower speeds; or underground, limited coverage, and wider stop spacing for higher speeds.

But surface routes arent as finate as you are making them. It is much more difficult to close a underused station like glencarin or bessarion the it would be to close a under used TC stop. One stop costs 100 million so closing it would come under a scrutiny of questions. The other stop at say 10 million would never raise the amount of eye brows that it couldnt be closed.

 

[Paleo]

Travel time savings from express operation isn't free. Any time saved by the long haulers is taken from the people who are stuck in the 1000m zone between stops. Zero sum it is.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Transit City is my preference. The only changes I would make is more grade separations should be considered, such as putting Weston underground, and an Leslie overpass along Eglinton. Other grade separations should also be considered, where possible.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

As per usual, Matt Elliott's excellent summary on the current situation:

http://fordfortoronto.mattelliott.ca/2012/02/06/return-of-transit-city/

AoD

 

[kkgg7]

Travel time savings from express operation isn't free. Any time saved by the long haulers is taken from the people who are stuck in the 1000m zone between stops. Zero sum it is.

And they can't walk for 5 minutes to the closest station because?
You think it makes sense for the entire train to stop and let 500 passengers on board to wait 2 minutes for 4 people to get on/off every 50 seconds? If that's case, why not allow streetcar/bus passengers to get off/on everywhere they want along the route like hailing a taxi? because no matter what you do, there are bound to be people who are stuck in the 500 meter zone between stops.

 

[Electrify]

[video=youtube;xP4zBrieXtY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP4zBrieXtY[/video]

this guy has some pretty good points, please watch and discuss

I had to stop it half way through, because it was becoming too derpy for my tastes. Anyways, he bases his whole argument that light rail would impact other traffic, which as we all know is completely false. I put in a more substantial reply to this thesis plus a video of what LRT on Eglinton would look like on the YouTube page.

 

[vz64]

I think the original TC plan was almost as extreme as Ford's "people want subways" plan relying only on one type of transportation technology--LRT. It works for some small European cities like Montpellier, but would be inadequate for a city of size of Toronto. We need subways, LRT, and BRT, and the planning process should be as professional and "undemocratic" as possible (do we expect big corporation to engage in democratic planning?) in order to succeed. We need to get new sources of revenue to make it real (road tolls, part of gas tax, part of sales tax, etc.).

 

[Electrify]

And they can't walk for 5 minutes to the closest station because?
You think it makes sense for the entire train to stop and let 500 passengers on board to wait 2 minutes for 4 people to get on/off every 50 seconds? If that's case, why not allow streetcar/bus passengers to get off/on everywhere they want along the route like hailing a taxi? because no matter what you do, there are bound to be people who are stuck in the 500 meter zone between stops.

Also worth pointing out that transit planner Christopher MacKechine suggests that rapid transit with stops every half mile is adequate enough that you shouldn't need to run frequent bus service alongside the route:

http://publictransport.about.com/od...roper-Stop-Spacing-Of-Rapid-Transit-Lines.htm

 

[Nick.]

Personally, I have to reluctantly take Ford's. While Transit City would serve more people, the stop spacing is too close to actually meet the travel needs of the city. Ford's plan does lack quantity, but has more quality than Transit City.

Really, I hope that some compromise is made, preferably surface run but with wider stops. But if I had to choose between one or the other, I'd go with Ford's.

i'm glad you aren't on city council

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

vz64:

While I have issues with how LRTs are being used, the consensus among planning experts is that capacity isn't the issue for the lines envisioned. If it was a decision undertaken from a business perspective, I have a feeling you won't even see any improvements on Sheppard at all.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

Also worth pointing out that transit planner Christopher MacKechine suggests that rapid transit with stops every half mile is adequate enough that you shouldn't need to run frequent bus service alongside the route.

We already run part of our subway like this. Half-a-mile is 800 metres. Coxwell to Woodbine is 900 metres. Woodbine to Main is 900 metres.

Hopefully the currently active LRT projects (Finch West, Sheppard East, Eglinton East) have the stops thinned out a bit to accomplish this.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Is there any news on when the special council meeting will happen? Will the councillors finally be voting for or against the Ford Crosstown or will that happen at a later date?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The word is Wednesday, and it will be the whole deal.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

Is there any news on when the special council meeting will happen? Will the councillors finally be voting for or against the Ford Crosstown or will that happen at a later date?

Wednesday 9:30 AM.

The agenda is on the city website: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewPublishedReport.do?function=getCouncilAgendaReport&meetingId=6146

As is the petition: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2012/cc/bgrd/backgroundfile-45035.pdf

Letter from Metrolinx to Ford/Stintz: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2012/cc/bgrd/backgroundfile-45036.pdf

Today's letter from Stintz to Metrolinx: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2012/cc/bgrd/backgroundfile-45037.pdf

As you can see, the majority of councillors have signed the petition, and the intent is to confirm the 2009 MOU with Metrolinx to build the Sheppard East LRT, Finch West LRT, Eglinton LRT, and upgrade the SRT to LRT (and presumably extend to Sheppard/Markham).