Toronto's relationship with the city of Buffalo, NY.

[wild goose chase]

They say that Torontonians used to travel to Buffalo prior to its decline at least up to the earlier part of the 20th century because it used to be the more "bustling" and larger city, plus it must have seemed more lively back when Toronto was still seen as a "dull" city. Of course, Buffalo peaked in the postwar period with over half a million people and has been declining ever since. Today, Buffalonians now often travel to Toronto as the "big city" and so do many upstate New Yorkers, sometimes even seeing it as the big city in their "area" moreso than NYC itself. It also used to be "a thing" to have frequent border crossings for things like shopping as well as flying in from the cheaper airport though I wonder if that is diminished since the passport requirement as well as heightened border security might discourage crossing in and out too much.

What would you say about Toronto's relationship with Buffalo? Have many Torontonians spent time in and are familiar with the city? I used to go through or stop at Buffalo very often from my childhood all the way to adulthood and up to not too long ago, when I spent time in the northeastern US and would go between there and Toronto and in some ways, it is actually kind of sad to see it's population decline and city abandonment for a city that is so close to us and that we somewhat share a history of connection with. I'd imagine that tourists could still spend some time in both Buffalo and Toronto when they come (either from abroad or North America itself) to see Niagara Falls.

 

[junctionist]

Buffalo is remarkable in that even though it lost many of its major industries in the second half of the 20th century, it didn't end up blighted like Detroit. The city has many interesting neighbourhoods that are in good shape. It's relatively rare to see abandoned houses. Buffalo has a system of parks designed by famed American landscape architect Frederick Law Olmstead. Its historic architecture is superb. Today, it's seeing revitalization with new businesses like craft distilleries moving into the older parts of the city. They're doing great work on their waterfront, with a lot of new parkland completed.

The old industrial area known as "Elevator Alley" is fascinating--there are dozens of old grain elevators lining the Buffalo River and the lake. These grain elevators easily dwarf our Canada Malting Plant--they're far bigger and mostly abandoned. There are old lift bridges and massive rail yards. Elevator Alley is surprisingly picturesque.

As Toronto and NYC get more expensive, people from both cities will probably look to Buffalo. It has some impressive assets.

 

[King of Kensington]

Yeah, Buffalo hasn't fared as badly as Detroit, which really suffered from depopulation and white flight. The east side of Buffalo is in very bad shape, but west of Main St. there's still a sizable middle class presence. In contrast "revitalized" Detroit (downtown/midtown) comprises maybe 5% of the city.

College graduates

Buffalo 25%
Detroit 13%

Poverty rate

Detroit 40%
Buffalo 31%

 

[Armour]

I used to visit Buffalo a couple of times a year with my family, while growing up, for the shopping bargains. We'd frequent the Military Mall Outlets (technically in Niagara Falls, NY) and Walden Galleria Mall.

I've always equated Buffalo with two things: Goo Goo Dolls and Buffalo Wings.

I've only passed through downtown Buffalo once or twice (over 2 decades ago). Most of our time was spent in the suburbs.

 

[wild goose chase]

As Toronto and NYC get more expensive, people from both cities will probably look to Buffalo. It has some impressive assets.

I can see Americans moving to a city like Buffalo if revitalization efforts go well, but for those who don't have dual citizenship, it might be a big change to move there just for cheaper housing when one could move to another part of Ontario.

When it comes to revitalization too, I wonder what jobs/industries would be there or that could move there and help Buffalo bounce back. Obviously there are things that won't come back because of technological changes like the loss of the transportation role that Buffalo used to play or certain kinds of manufacturing that lead to the decline of the other cities in the rust belt, but there can be potential for other kinds of industry/jobs.

 

[Johnny Au]

The Buffalo MetroRail had to halt expansion plans. In fact, a part of Main Street that has the LRT at grade became mixed-traffic again rather than LRT only.

Perhaps when we get old (and definitely after all phases of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT in Toronto iare complete) will be when the Buffalo MetroRail has a second line to Cheektowaga (and the Walden Galleria).

 

[King of Kensington]

An ancient website, but gives you a sense of the social geography of Buffalo:

http://lewyn.tripod.com/afg.html

 

[Johnny Au]

It is interesting that Elmwood Village, aka Buffalo's hipster district, has a Hero's Certified Burger, which is a major Toronto-based burger chain.

 

[gabe]

I have noticed lately Buffalo restaurants are adding poutine to their menus. There is even a new poutine restaurant in Allentown.

 

[Johnny Au]

In a few years, Smoke's Poutinerie would open a Buffalo location as their second American location after Berkeley, CA.

It would be interesting if the original Anchor Bar would begin selling poutine, just like their Hamilton and Burlington locations.

 

[toraerach]

We've been going to Buffalo every summer for the past few years to check out the gay life down there. It's a surprisingly vibrant scene given the size of the city. It's a nice change of scenery (the 4 AM last call is appreciated) and the people are generally friendly. It's a bit strange though - you meet some people who're dating a guy in Toronto and cross the border every weekend, and some who've never thought about heading North for a visit. We've found a surprisingly large number of folks who frequent the Embassy in Hamilton, which we also like visiting every once and a while.

We've never spent the night in Buffalo and I don't feel I've missed out by not staying longer. If it wasn't day-trip-able, I don't think I would ever need to visit it more than once.

 

[Northern Light]

I think Buffalo is on the verge of turning the corner; provided they don't mess it up! There is some infill development in/around downtown, some key heritage properties are being restored.

The waterfront 'Canalside' is coming along, slowly, but surely.

They do have some real challenges.

One is there need for decent public transit, both for locals and tourists.

The Metro rail expansion to Amherst (the suburban and major University Campus) is again under study. http://www.buffalonews.com/city-reg...to-turn-dlw-site-into-waterfront-gem-20151221

Though, the result is now delayed to July.

They are also considering 'Rapid Bus' which I think would be a mistake from a public perception perspective.

***

I think they really do need to address making cross-border trips easier, both directions, to attract greater investment, jobs, and job opportunities for some of their citizens on our side of the border.

Traffic makes any trip from or to any area much beyond Niagara region too un-attractive to many. In addition they need to be attractive to the growing middle/upper class segment in Toronto that is car-less.

Our proposed improvements to GO will help them quite a bit.

But I think there is a need for a Toronto-Buffalo rail shuttle w/customs pre-clearance and the traffic would work for at least 2 daily trips each way.

There is also a need to reach across the border in terms of joint initiatives. Attracting jobs (or tourists) to either side of the border can be mutually beneficial and that means events on one side can support attendance and dollars for the other.

Still, much to recommend the place, its time many yet come, again.

 

[Johnny Au]

The Toronto Blue Jays could play an exhibition game (or even a regular season game) at the Coca-Cola Field, so that Buffalonians would get a taste of Major League Baseball. It helps that the Buffalo Bisons is the AAA affiliate of the Jays.

The Raptors 905 could even play a game in First Niagara Center (exhibition or regular season).

 

[Translude15]

The Toronto Blue Jays could play an exhibition game (or even a regular season game) at the Coca-Cola Field, so that Buffalonians would get a taste of Major League Baseball. It helps that the Buffalo Bisons is the AAA affiliate of the Jays.

The Raptors 905 could even play a game in First Niagara Center (exhibition or regular season).

Why the hell would the Jays play a regular season game in Buffalo in a stadium that seats <20,000?

 

[gabe]

I think Buffalo is on the verge of turning the corner; provided they don't mess it up! There is some infill development in/around downtown, some key heritage properties are being restored.

The waterfront 'Canalside' is coming along, slowly, but surely.

They do have some real challenges.

One is there need for decent public transit, both for locals and tourists.

The Metro rail expansion to Amherst (the suburban and major University Campus) is again under study. http://www.buffalonews.com/city-reg...to-turn-dlw-site-into-waterfront-gem-20151221

Though, the result is now delayed to July.

They are also considering 'Rapid Bus' which I think would be a mistake from a public perception perspective.

***
/QUOTE]

I have been going to Buffalo for years. ( My cousin lives in Amherst ) About 6 months i stayed in Amherst, and for the first time i went downtown without a car! I bought a day pass which was $5 and got the bus from the Amherst University Campus) To the U of B on main st. And from there I took the underground LRT to downtown. Where i did some shopping and lots of drinking.

It would be great to have the LRT connect to the Amherst University Campus. Traffic in Amherst sucks!