Toronto Yorkdale Shopping Centre | ?m | ?s | Oxford Properties | MMC Architecture

You know...I think one of the big paradoxes about Yorkdale is that as Toronto's first major hub mall, it's never been a very strong generator of (re)development in the vicinity--it should be far more of an office/retail/condo node than it is. Instead, its surroundings are, to this day, primarily lowrise and dismal, with a touch of the downmarket or "discountty" (cf. the Orfus outlet row)
 
You know...I think one of the big paradoxes about Yorkdale is that as Toronto's first major hub mall, it's never been a very strong generator of (re)development in the vicinity--it should be far more of an office/retail/condo node than it is. Instead, its surroundings are, to this day, primarily lowrise and dismal, with a touch of the downmarket or "discountty" (cf. the Orfus outlet row)

One problem is the Downsview airport makes higher density in the flightpath impossible, even though it goes right over the 401-Allen Road intersection. The other is that when the mall was originally built, it was zoned for low-density all around, except for the hotel opposite on Dufferin Street.

It needs to be rezoned for higher density, except for the flightpath of course.
 
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I suppose the apartments on the other side of the Allen Rd are "off-flightpath", then. (And I suppose, too, that Yorkdale's unfortunate in its predating or being off-orbit from the "low-rise/high-density" sensibility a la Diamond/Myers in the 70s, Paul Bedford's urban credo in the 00's, anything from Jane Jacobs to New Urbanism which could have neutralized the "flightpath problem"...)
 
I disagree. The mall has its own subway station. You can't fault it for not having perfect east-west transit connections too. The Wilson bus is just a stone's throw north of Yorkdale, one could easily switch to the Dufferin bus and wait the 4 stops or so it takes to arrive at the mall, or go right to Wilson station and ride the train one stop south right to the mall. Let's not nit-pick.

For 'proof' that the transit access may not be ideal even with a subway station, compare Yorkdale with Scarborough Town Centre. Both are on the 401, and both are transit hubs. In 2005, Yorkdale had 7179 parking spots, while STC had 5471. Yorkdale was estimated to have 450,000 visitors a week, while STC had 413,477. The numbers may have changed slightly, and perhaps one or the other has more mallrats or kiss'n'riders visiting but not shopping, but the numbers seem reasonable. Yorkdale has 9% more visitors, but 31% more parking. STC has a higher percentage of visitors arriving by transit. Even a quick glance will tell you that STC's transit-to-mall pedestrian bridge is busiser than Yorkdale's. Yorkdale does get many thousands of visitors every day from the subway, but STC gets more because it also has superb bus connections to half of Scarborough in addition to the RT/subway connection.

What's needed is better access to the Spadina line. The Spadina extension will help areas NW of Yorkdale, while a Sheppard subway extension westward is needed for the rest of North York. For the southern half of the city, an Eglinton line could do a lot. Getting from Yonge to Spadina can be pretty annoying and connections are necessary on both Eglinton and Sheppard. For the zone along the 401, from about Wilson to Lawrence, better transit on arterials like Lawrence and Wilson would help, a few local bus routes could have branches added to Yorkdale (though off the top of my head I can't think of any routes that this would work well on since a few routes already run by Yorkdale).

Still, Yorkdale will never have the kind of local transit access that STC or the Eaton Centre or Square One has. You certainly can fault it for having a location with excellent highway access but terrible arterial road access (and Dufferin at that point almost doesn't count), although it was the 1960s. Going from crowded bus to crowded bus during rush hour carrying loads of shopping bags is not an option people want to choose. At least getting on a subway, or getting on a bus at a terminal (like STC or Square One), people have a bit more room.
 
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Dufferin Mall at least has an entrance right next to the Dufferin bus, unlike Yorkdale. The walk from the Dufferin Station to Dufferin Mall is however out in the open compared with Yorkdale walkway to its Yorkdale Station, but Yorkdale has not many stores along the covered walkway.

That Yorkdale subway walkway could be improved, especially with more stores and replacing the steps with ramps and/or escaltors, as well as elevators for the subway station itself.
 
For 'proof' that the transit access may not be ideal even with a subway station, compare Yorkdale with Scarborough Town Centre. Both are on the 401, and both are transit hubs. In 2005, Yorkdale had 7179 parking spots, while STC had 5471. Yorkdale was estimated to have 450,000 visitors a week, while STC had 413,477. The numbers may have changed slightly, and perhaps one or the other has more mallrats or kiss'n'riders visiting but not shopping, but the numbers seem reasonable. Yorkdale has 9% more visitors, but 31% more parking. STC has a higher percentage of visitors arriving by transit. Even a quick glance will tell you that STC's transit-to-mall pedestrian bridge is busiser than Yorkdale's. Yorkdale does get many thousands of visitors every day from the subway, but STC gets more because it also has superb bus connections to half of Scarborough in addition to the RT/subway connection.

Well, it's Scarborough Town Centre. Whereas Yorkdale wasn't conceived as the centre of anything but shopping (and maybe auto transpo, had the Spadina Expressway network been completed as planned).

And even STC's "superb bus connections" are problematic, because existing TTC bus lines don't loop into STC station.

I think a lot has to do with the happenstance of demographics, i.e. STC's "ghetto mall" rep versus the more Hills-girls-compatible ambience about Yorkdale...
 
Well, it's Scarborough Town Centre. Whereas Yorkdale wasn't conceived as the centre of anything but shopping (and maybe auto transpo, had the Spadina Expressway network been completed as planned).

And even STC's "superb bus connections" are problematic, because existing TTC bus lines don't loop into STC station.

I think a lot has to do with the happenstance of demographics, i.e. STC's "ghetto mall" rep versus the more Hills-girls-compatible ambience about Yorkdale...

Well, obviously. I was just pointing out that Yorkdale very much relies on its parking spots even though it has a subway station, too. Yorkdale is old enough that a suburban "centre" could have developed around it, but that didn't happen.

There's nothing at all problematic with the bus connections at STC...what routes are you thinking of? The only route that runs near without stopping is the York Mills bus, which is made redundant by other routes that do go to STC.

Yorkdale has a lot more mallrats than it used to (the awful food court stymies many would-be mallrats, but lots of Wood-a-bridgers and generic housewives spend much of the day there buying almost nothing) and it isn't the paragon of upscaleness some people think it is. It's no Sherway or Bayview Village...people who think Yorkdale is the cat's meow probably have either never been to those two malls, or can't afford to shop there (and all three are one storey, interestingly). Yes, there are Snookis pushing strollers through Yorkdale station on their way to the mall. Yorkdale's last few additions have really mid-scaled the place and snuffed out most of whatever higher-end ambiance it may have had years ago. People that watch the Hills might shop there, but the Hills cast themselves would not. They built that new atrium and classed it up reeeal nice with a big Old Navy.

STC is also on a gentle decline and is a more ghetto mall, yes, but the point is that hordes of people get there by bus - Yorkdale has no such bus connections because it has such poor arterial road connections and turns its back on the one nearby artery, Dufferin, which kind of peters out there, anyway. Yorkdale has highway + subway, but STC has highway + 'subway' + buses, and that makes a huge difference, as the numbers I posted show. I don't have numbers for Fairview, but it would be an interesting comparison since it, too, is not a "centre" but it does have the highway + subway + buses trifecta.
 
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Well, obviously. I was just pointing out that Yorkdale very much relies on its parking spots even though it has a subway station, too. Yorkdale is old enough that a suburban "centre" could have developed around it, but that didn't happen.

There's nothing at all problematic with the bus connections at STC...what routes are you thinking of? The only route that runs near without stopping is the York Mills bus, which is made redundant by other routes that do go to STC.

Yorkdale has a lot more mallrats than it used to (the awful food court stymies many would-be mallrats, but lots of Wood-a-bridgers and generic housewives spend much of the day there buying almost nothing) and it isn't the paragon of upscaleness some people think it is. It's no Sherway or Bayview Village...people who think Yorkdale is the cat's meow probably have either never been to those two malls, or can't afford to shop there (and all three are one storey, interestingly). Yes, there are Snookis pushing strollers through Yorkdale station on their way to the mall. Yorkdale's last few additions have really mid-scaled the place and snuffed out most of whatever higher-end ambiance it may have had years ago. People that watch the Hills might shop there, but the Hills cast themselves would not. They built that new atrium and classed it up reeeal nice with a big Old Navy.

STC is also on a gentle decline and is a more ghetto mall, yes, but the point is that hordes of people get there by bus - Yorkdale has no such bus connections because it has such poor arterial road connections and turns its back on the one nearby artery, Dufferin, which kind of peters out there, anyway. Yorkdale has highway + subway, but STC has highway + 'subway' + buses, and that makes a huge difference, as the numbers I posted show. I don't have numbers for Fairview, but it would be an interesting comparison since it, too, is not a "centre" but it does have the highway + subway + buses trifecta.

The 47B and 47C Lansdowne buses bypass Yorkdale Mall completely, to serve the Yorkdale Subway Station. There are bus stops, but like the 29 Dufferin buses, one has to safari across asphalt deserts or the rapids of traffic to reach the shopping oasis.

There is also those who use the parking lots at Yorkdale as a free park 'n ride to hop on the subway to get downtown. While there is a fee for those who arrive before the mall opens, it is alternative to the pay parking at Wilson Subway station. That is why I think the building of the parking deck so close to Yorkdale Subway station shouldn't have been done. Another reason for the current parking deck to be replaced by a parking deck next to the 401, and replaced with stores. Then, at least, people would have to go through the mall to reach the station.
 
Yorkdale has a lot more mallrats than it used to (the awful food court stymies many would-be mallrats, but lots of Wood-a-bridgers and generic housewives spend much of the day there buying almost nothing) and it isn't the paragon of upscaleness some people think it is. It's no Sherway or Bayview Village...people who think Yorkdale is the cat's meow probably have either never been to those two malls, or can't afford to shop there (and all three are one storey, interestingly). Yes, there are Snookis pushing strollers through Yorkdale station on their way to the mall. Yorkdale's last few additions have really mid-scaled the place and snuffed out most of whatever higher-end ambiance it may have had years ago. People that watch the Hills might shop there, but the Hills cast themselves would not. They built that new atrium and classed it up reeeal nice with a big Old Navy.

Though was it ever so precisely anti-midscale? After all, Yorkdale had Kresges and Dominion in the beginning; and Sears made for a pretty beigey-middle added anchor in the 1980s. And I'd even argue that Old Navy's presence has a "Winners on Bloor" thing going.

Then again, Yorkdale's always had that aura of a place trying to deflect away the "Lawrence Heights" element--with the 80s development of Lawrence Square sealing that particular deal...
 
Though was it ever so precisely anti-midscale? After all, Yorkdale had Kresges and Dominion in the beginning; and Sears made for a pretty beigey-middle added anchor in the 1980s. And I'd even argue that Old Navy's presence has a "Winners on Bloor" thing going.

Then again, Yorkdale's always had that aura of a place trying to deflect away the "Lawrence Heights" element--with the 80s development of Lawrence Square sealing that particular deal...

If one person entered Yorkdale near the Bay and walked down the 'grand avenue' or turned left and walked towards Holt Renfrew, and a second person entered through the subway station where it's downscale and servicey, they'd get very different first impressions of Yorkdale. They'd pass different stores and different architecture and different people.

It was never anti-midscale, no more than STC was always kinda ghetto, anyway, but Yorkdale has been positioning itself as a better mall, a fashion centre, where Snookis and housewives and credit cards will feel at home - that, and the subway access, has made the mall try to lure a younger crowd over the years (the crowd that is less likely to be able to get there easily without good bus connections). Midscale mall didn't mean anything in the 1960s. If it had been built in the 70s, it would be orange and brown and all brick...Yorkdale was a bit lucky that the light and airy 60s style is roughly what's been trendy for malls since the 90s, so when the time eventually came that malls began worrying about competing with each other and about where they fit in on the luxury continuum, Yorkdale did well. The design, the size, perhaps even the location between Forest Hill and Woodbridge helped. Did Yorkdale ever have a cheap/independent movie theatre?

I expect Yorkdale to eventually fill in the 'square' to the SW with an L-shaped expansion from Sears to Holt Renfrew.
 
The 47B and 47C Lansdowne buses bypass Yorkdale Mall completely, to serve the Yorkdale Subway Station. There are bus stops, but like the 29 Dufferin buses, one has to safari across asphalt deserts or the rapids of traffic to reach the shopping oasis.

There is a bus stop right across from the skywalk to enter the mall. Presumably the 47 uses this.

Did Yorkdale ever have a cheap/independent movie theatre?
Yes, where the mall connects to the Subway I belive. 6 screens.

I expect Yorkdale to eventually fill in the 'square' to the SW with an L-shaped expansion from Sears to Holt Renfrew.
They just finished renovations on that side of the mall for their valet parking, and are doing exterior work for a new restruant, so I can't see it happening in the next 10 years. But that does seem like an easy corner to connect things. They'd need to move the loading docks though.
 
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Yeah, I meant eventually as many years from now. They could just make the ramp down to the loading docks more of a tunnel beginning farther south, but Yorkdale may have other plans. Maybe they'll plow through Sears and expand that way, towards Dufferin. I doubt they'll move north...they'll want to keep that face of the mall and the 401-visible parking.

In the ultra long-term, after Flemington's redevelopment and other projects along Lawrence and Bathurst and whatnot, I can almost see a real mid-rise and urban city growing up in the area, along streets like Marlee and Ranee, and if the city's current and silly "stable neighbourhood" policy is ever jettisoned, streets like Glen Belle and Alcester could be perfect redevelopment fodder.
 
One thing they need to do is make that bridge from the subway station into Yorkdale at least twice as wide.
 

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