ProjectEnd
Superstar
To @rbt's comment above, @UrbanAffair, how would property taxes work in a situation like this? An approved high density project but a very low-density, interim, recreational, use...
Toronto Yonge & Rosehill | 172.3m | 50s | Originate | Moriyama Teshima Architects
- Thread starter androiduk
- Start date
Midtown Hank
New Member
Would be very interested to know as well.
Methinks they should tax these sites on what they are approved for. Would certainly make the speculators think twice before asking for sky high density that they have no intention of actually building out themselves.
Methinks they should tax these sites on what they are approved for. Would certainly make the speculators think twice before asking for sky high density that they have no intention of actually building out themselves.
rbt
Senior Member
Land in Toronto, due to how MPAC assesses land, is usually taxed at its highest potential value (excluding yet-to-be-built structure value) regardless of what it is currently zoned for. It's why Yonge has been transforming so quickly through downtown: all those 2 floor shops were paying thousands per month in property taxes which few tenants or land owners could sustain, due to land being valued for significant residential densities.
Even $100k/year in property taxes (likely around what this site will be paying as vacant) isn't enough to encourage them to build a $500M project earlier if losses would be expected. The annual mortgage interest by far their largest cost. But if they could pay something closer to the Managed Forest rate (roughly 25% of the residential rate) for installing and maintaining a recreational space temporarily then they might just do that.
Last edited:
Tuscani01
Senior Member
But it’s actually becoming pickleball courts. It says so on the hoarding around the site. Www.visitfairgrounds.com for more info.It's approved as a condo. @Undead was being silly.
That said, this project is much larger than anything the developer has built before at a time when sales are unusually low so it may be a while, perhaps years, before construction begins. There will be an interim use of the land in some way: perhaps a sales office, or paid parking, ... or a pickleball court.
Honestly, I could see many developers putting in temporary athletic or park spaces if property taxes were charged appropriately for that purpose. If anyone has the mayor's ear this might be worth mentioning. Low taxes on parking lots is how we got so many of those downtown in the 90's. A bunch of temporary privately maintained public spaces would be useful, even if just for a few years.
Last edited:
ProjectEnd
Superstar
Been on the hoarding since summer last year:
Northern Light
Superstar
It is Pickleball and it should be open to the public towards the end of next month, to my understanding.
UrbanAffair
Senior Member
It would be (should be) valued based on the highest and best use, as vacant, and on a buildable rate basis. (Approved GFA x buildable rate which would be derived from similar properties which sold around 2016, since we are still stuck in 2016 when it comes to assessment.)
The tax class would be multi res, as that is based on the dominant zoning in place, when the site is vacant. The pickleball courts are free so I doubt the tax class would change, as the site would still be considered vacant land. (I think.). I think you would need an occupied structure or commercial use to have this site be anything other than vacant land still.
If the pickleball court were commercial in nature, that would be considered a different use, and the tax class would be commercial, and the tax rate would be higher than the multi-res tax rate. I’m not at MPAC anymore but I still believe this would be the right approach - unless there are new tax subclasses I’m unaware of.
ProjectEnd
Superstar
Masterclass as always, @UrbanAffair!
UrbanAffair
Senior Member
That’s very kind. I try to contribute where I can. ;-)
rbt
Senior Member
Building out some type of court: based on the acrylic and mesh walls, I'd guess Padel?
ProjectEnd
Superstar
UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
rdaner
Senior Member
A great example of a meanwhile use!
Amare
Senior Member
I'm really looking forward to all the complaints from Yonge-St.Clair's finest residents about how loud and obnoxious the pickleball is, it's going to be pure comedy.
dufferin1
New Member
Fairgrounds Announces New Locations for the Canadian Pickleball and Padel Club
After the successful 2022 opening of Toronto's first democratic sports club, Fairgrounds Public Racket Club is launching a rapid expansion to meet the rising national demand for pickleball and padel courts working with innovative groups including First Capital REIT, QuadReal Property Group ...
From this article it says they're building pickleball and padel courts. The fences in those pictures specifically look like Padel.