Amare
Senior Member
This really should've been included in the Gardiner/Ontario Place deal that came out yesterday. I'm sure the city could've at least secured protecting for a Cummer Station at the very least.
So it is what i thought. "we want it but we think you should pay for it not us"The City is saying:
"We support building Cummer Station"
"We do not have the funds, nor feel it is our responsibility to pay for it"
"You, Ontario, decide; but here's the case for building it."
So it is what i thought. "we want it but we think you should pay for it not us"
wait when did i say they shouldnt lol course metrolinx should build it LOL. where did you get that idea.You are so contrarian to logic, so often.
The province is building the line, its their line, the station makes more sense than at least one, if not two of those they (the province) are building.
Why would the City be responsible to pay the province to build a station for which they (the province) are the owner, when the province is paying to build all the other stations?
That's illogical; just as it is that the City is on the hook paying for a bunch of GO Stations.
The province is building the line, its their line, the station makes more sense than at least one, if not two of those they (the province) are building.
Why would the City be responsible to pay the province to build a station for which they (the province) are the owner, when the province is paying to build all the other stations?
That's illogical; just as it is that the City is on the hook paying for a bunch of GO Stations.
This…feels like a losing strategy.The City is saying:
"We support building Cummer Station"
"We do not have the funds, nor feel it is our responsibility to pay for it"
"You, Ontario, decide; but here's the case for building it."
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: I’ll believe these magic TOC revenues when I see it.Because in this instance (fair or not) the Province started off with a funding envelope and said they are doing 3 stations (Bridge, Steeles, High Tech) and then one of the others (Clark).. Then, politics being what it is, they said they'll use TOC revenues from Bridge and High Tech for Royal Orchard.
Because in this instance (fair or not) the Province started off with a funding envelope and said they are doing 3 stations (Bridge, Steeles, High Tech) and then one of the others (Clark).. Then, politics being what it is, they said they'll use TOC revenues from Bridge and High Tech for Royal Orchard.
So Cummer fell between the tracks, not having as strong a business case as Clark and not having hte upset residents and/or TOC revenues that Royal Orchard had. And now all the money is gone.
So it's a bit unfair but I don't know that it's illogical. It's just the way the cookie crumbles.
(And BTW, in addition to the TOC fees unlike Toronto, York Region is contributing to the project so when you say "the Province is paying to build all the other stations," that's not entirely accurate. The same applies to saying it's the Province's line. No - it's TTC's line, it's just their project. It's not the same as GO.)
The TTC could refuse to operate it; as it did the Finch and Eglinton LRTs and suddenly provincial money appears.
Or the province could build a station for under 200M.........
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: I’ll believe these magic TOC revenues when I see it.
These numbers were handwaved into existence, and given the current interest rates and general construction climate, I don’t think we’ll see construction on any of this anytime soon, and I doubt the costs wills be recouped.
It’s purely a political play for York Region with a veneer of fiscal responsibility.
That would be a nuclear option for the city and give the variably shifting municipal-provincial relations and electoral cycles, probably not as simple as you make it sound.
I don't really care about Cummer wither way - it's fine but not necessary IMHO - but since it's been only 24 hours since the province handed $1.2b to the city, I doubt they have another $200m to toss in the pot or that the city has more cards to play. If it was their priority, and if the province was amenable, it would be in the deal already. (A cynic could say Downtown Olivia Chow doesn't care about North York's station. I doubt it's that simple but again, it's not in deal either because she didn't push for it and/or Doug didn't want to vie) give it to her.)
The revenues definitely exist in a contract probably no one will ever see. And I don't know, on that basis, why you would assume they're tied entirely to construction.
Anyway, whether they were literally directed to the new station or whether it was more "poetic" is subject to speculation but yeah, no one disputes it was political
I would be truly surprised if a builder (or a set of builders) handed over the TOC funds to the government before getting their inventory onto the market. When would you think the money will start to flow to the government? Now? After they get approvals? When?The revenues definitely exist in a contract probably no one will ever see. And I don't know, on that basis, why you would assume they're tied entirely to construction.
Suppose the TOC money does not cover the cost of a Royal Orchard Station. Does this mean that the government could reverse course and cancel the station due to lack of funding?I would be truly surprised if a builder (or a set of builders) handed over the TOC funds to the government before getting their inventory onto the market. When would you think the money will start to flow to the government? Now? After they get approvals? When?
I’m pushing back against your proposition that the Royal Orchard station is entirely covered by TOC revenues, because:
It’s just striking that with these two factors in play you’re repeating Metrolinx’s talking points around funding uncritically.
- The submissions around these TOC sites were confidential, and to my knowledge no binding contracts were signed
- As a result, all this TOC money is hypothetical, and even more so in this capital climate
No - I really, really doubt it. It’s a political decision to build out Royal Orchard and tunnel the damn thing as deep as it is.Suppose the TOC money does not cover the cost of a Royal Orchard Station. Does this mean that the government could reverse course and cancel the station due to lack of funding?
I would be truly surprised if a builder (or a set of builders) handed over the TOC funds to the government before getting their inventory onto the market. When would you think the money will start to flow to the government? Now? After they get approvals? When?
I’m pushing back against your proposition that the Royal Orchard station is entirely covered by TOC revenues, because:
- The submissions around these TOC sites were confidential, and to my knowledge no binding contracts were signed
- As a result, all this TOC money is hypothetical, and even more so in this capital climate