Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[Rainforest]

A quick glance at the Cummer/Yonge area shows buildings on four quadrants likely to be torn down for development.

That means 2 reasonable choices for cost-control exist here; the first is to have the City buy the land for a small 2-bay terminal now, and do the upzoning for a tower itself; saving a developer the time and trouble; then recover
the cost of the terminal through a sale with strata-rights for TTC retained.

OR

They could widen Cummer's ROW by 8m, and put in platforms inside the ROW, with canopy and back wall protection and have a direct connection from new stations' mezzaine coming up onto the platforms. Stairs and escalator at one end, elevator at the opposite end. The down side to this is that it may require up to 3 elevators to the surface depending on layout and likewise 3 up-path escalators. On the other hand, potentially, it would have a smaller footprint and allow for through-running.

Both option are possible, but if they are building a terminal anyway, I think a bus terminal with a tower on top of it is more common and should be preferred.

Through-running the 42 and 125 in't a goal by itself (very few interested riders); it would be just a workaround in case there is no terminal at all.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I don't see how any route that leaves Yonge Street can get you more bang for your buck, but I'm curious to hear it.
As pointed out, there's already massive development on the Toronto portion of Yonge predicated on the subway and the planning is already in place on the York Region portion too.

Lordy, there's a proposal now by Greenpark - no small potatoes - to replace the plaza at Royal Orchard with 4 towers ranging from 25 to 59 storeys. That's madness, especially since that station is currently off the table though, in rather a Catch-22 with this development, Markham is trying to get it back. Either way, if the subway's not gonna be there, they should figure that out soon.

 

[Edward Skira]

Cummer terminal, on the other hand, is optional IMO. TTC can just through-route the 42 and 125, and let the riders transfer to subway on-street. There would be some demand mismatch (42 is longer and therefore more popular than 125), so it might cost a couple of extra buses in service west of Yonge, but that's not a big deal.

Just have the Cummer and Drewery buses continue to Finch Station as they do today. No need for anything major at Cummer.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I imagine Royal Orchard will die, they will introduce an elevated section through the valley if not from Clark Avenue all the way to Highway 7, get rid of the massive Steeles underground bus terminal and replace it with a surface terminal, eliminate the Cummer/Drewry terminal, and open up the train yard planned north of Highway 7 to the air.

Maybe I could see an extension to 16th Avenue, but even that would be pushing it since the province is literally still building dedicated bus lanes along that stretch that will essentially go to waste with that extension.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I imagine Royal Orchard will die, they will introduce an elevated section through the valley if not from Clark Avenue all the way to Highway 7, get rid of the massive Steeles underground bus terminal and replace it with a surface terminal, eliminate the Cummer/Drewry terminal, and open up the train yard planned north of Highway 7 to the air.

Interesting. I mean, that article was pretty vague about what the province could possibly be up to here. The speculation that they're going over to the GO Rail ROW strikes me (as it always has) as fanciful. Yonge is Yonge; that's where the development potential (and therefore the bucks for which you want to get a bang) come from).

I agree the Steeles bus terminal can be scaled back substantially though I dunno about putting it surface. Where are you gonna do that efficiently? They're also already above ground through the valley though an "elevated" section seems a bit grandiose to me. Similarly, why open up the rail yard? If nothing else, that's potential developable land you're creating with a deck.

Technically, Royal Orchard is already dead. They're trying to bring it back to life, is the thing. I personally don't think it's wise but it will be interesting to see how Council handles a major development which is rather beyond the pale without a subway station. I'm presuming Markham knew Greenpark was working on this while they've been lobbying to restore Royal Orchard; hence the Catch 22. It's basically the only development site right in the MTSA, and this development would maximize it. I just don't think it's enough.

I'd say I don't think the province would do anything major but then they're basically throwing out the DRL EA. But then, the YNSE design is much further along. But then, they've established some pretty aggressive timelines they put at risk with major changes... But then, who knows with these guys??

 

[raptor]

Interesting. I mean, that article was pretty vague about what the province could possibly be up to here. The speculation that they're going over to the GO Rail ROW strikes me (as it always has) as fanciful. Yonge is Yonge; that's where the development potential (and therefore the bucks for which you want to get a bang) come from).

I agree the Steeles bus terminal can be scaled back substantially though I dunno about putting it surface. Where are you gonna do that efficiently? They're also already above ground through the valley though an "elevated" section seems a bit grandiose to me. Similarly, why open up the rail yard? If nothing else, that's potential developable land you're creating with a deck.

Technically, Royal Orchard is already dead. They're trying to bring it back to life, is the thing. I personally don't think it's wise but it will be interesting to see how Council handles a major development which is rather beyond the pale without a subway station. I'm presuming Markham knew Greenpark was working on this while they've been lobbying to restore Royal Orchard; hence the Catch 22. It's basically the only development site right in the MTSA, and this development would maximize it. I just don't think it's enough.

I'd say I don't think the province would do anything major but then they're basically throwing out the DRL EA. But then, the YNSE design is much further along. But then, they've established some pretty aggressive timelines they put at risk with major changes... But then, who knows with these guys??

Plus, they've been boring test holes along Yonge as part of the PDE for the past year now.

 

[Hopkins123]

Two afterthoughts.
1) Maybe Centre is not the best idea. Due to the Don River, it's catchment area, just like that of Royal Orchard, is half absent.
View attachment 217879

2) Connecting 407 to Richmond Hill doesn't eve require a flyover. Just build a new connector road under the end spans of the 407 and highway 7 bridges. You're saving a couple of hundred million on a station, so a couple of dozen in road improvements is still a good deal. (Do we know if the 407/Spadina station is getting good use?)

View attachment 217880

The Centre Street station would also be serving the John Street area which has density intensification potential.

Kilometre apart spacing is not unreasonable and the stop with the 2, 3 and 77 feeding into it would perform certainly better than a lot of the TYSSE stations.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I imagine Royal Orchard will die, they will introduce an elevated section through the valley if not from Clark Avenue all the way to Highway 7, get rid of the massive Steeles underground bus terminal and replace it with a surface terminal, eliminate the Cummer/Drewry terminal, and open up the train yard planned north of Highway 7 to the air.

Maybe I could see an extension to 16th Avenue, but even that would be pushing it since the province is literally still building dedicated bus lanes along that stretch that will essentially go to waste with that extension.

Why not integrate the bus terminal with a development?

 

[Steve X]

The silly side of me think we might as well extend it northeast to 16 Av and Spadina and have a second Spadina Station on the Line.

 

[north-of-anything]

The silly side of me think we might as well extend it northeast to 16 Av and Spadina and have a second Spadina Station on the Line.

Yonge-University-Spadina-Spadina.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Plus, they've been boring test holes along Yonge as part of the PDE for the past year now.

I don't wanna come here just to complain about my morning commute but suffice to say, I can confirm this

 

[lead82]

I suspect that they will cut back the Royal Orchard stop. To be honest, they should also cancel the Langstaff stop as like they 407 stop a colossal waste of money. The RHC stop is close enough to the new proposed development. Trimming this to 4 stops (Cummer, Steele’s, Clark and RHC) would be sufficient for now. Metrolinx can rough in Langstaff and Royal York if desired but I doubt there is much demand there to justify the stops now.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I suspect that they will cut back the Royal Orchard stop. To be honest, they should also cancel the Langstaff stop as like they 407 stop a colossal waste of money. The RHC stop is close enough to the new proposed development. Trimming this to 4 stops (Cummer, Steele’s, Clark and RHC) would be sufficient for now. Metrolinx can rough in Langstaff and Royal York if desired but I doubt there is much demand there to justify the stops now.

I find it odd that Royal Orchard Station has been questionable since the beginning and has was removed from the plan for a few years, then recently it was re-added back to the project maps. Why is this?

 

[Hopkins123]

I suspect that they will cut back the Royal Orchard stop. To be honest, they should also cancel the Langstaff stop as like they 407 stop a colossal waste of money. The RHC stop is close enough to the new proposed development. Trimming this to 4 stops (Cummer, Steele’s, Clark and RHC) would be sufficient for now. Metrolinx can rough in Langstaff and Royal York if desired but I doubt there is much demand there to justify the stops now.

You forgot Centre. There's no justifiable way to go over 4 kilometres without an intermediate stop from Clark to RHC.

And instead of both Royal Orchard and Langstaff, just rough in one single future stop at Bay Thorn and call it a day. That'd serve both catchments well.

 

[north-of-anything]

If I had a dollar for every time someone complained about the 407 station and called it a waste of money...

I think that there is no reason to touch the line from Clark southwards. (Except can we please call the station between Finch and Steeles "Newtonbrook"? It fits the entire community in my opinion.) I don't have much of an opinion on where intermediate stops between Clark and Highway 7 should go, just that there should be one or two. I think Bay Thorn would be best, as the area north of the cemetery can be serviced by the RHC station once Red Maple gets extended underneath the 407.

I'm tempted to say that the design and construction for the line south of Clark should begin first, since there is much less in that section that can be up for debate. I doubt it would be practical for a project of this scale, though.