Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[pman]

This morning I stood at an overcrowded Eglinton station and watched (without exaggeration) 5 subway cars pass by, filled like sardines, before I was able to get on and become a sardine myself. The whole stretch between Davisville and Rosedale, not a single person was able to get on. Bloor was predictably, a horror-show.

I really don't think that York Region people understand the gravity of the capacity issues we are presently facing. How could they? They don't board at Eglinton, or Bloor at rush hour peak.

I agree taking line 1 in rush hour is a miserable experience for anyone who lives in central Toronto. However, judging by the comments from 905 people on this post, people in York region couldn't care less about that, and somehow think that TTC subway service is their right even though they don't actually live in Toronto or pay property taxes here. So it's up to those of us who live in Toronto, which actually owns the subway the last time I checked, to pressure our politicians to kill this ridiculous idea.

 

[44 North]

This morning I stood at an overcrowded Eglinton station and watched (without exaggeration) 5 subway cars pass by, filled like sardines, before I was able to get on and become a sardine myself. The whole stretch between Davisville and Rosedale, not a single person was able to get on. Bloor was predictably, a horror-show.

I really don't think that York Region people understand the gravity of the capacity issues we are presently facing. How could they? They don't board at Eglinton, or Bloor at rush hour peak.

No exaggeration needed. The situation is royally f'd, and we know for a fact there's huge latent demand of people who have already said "screw this mess, I'd rather crawl to work than put myself in that situation".

But one thing we don't hear much about are those with mobility issues, the elderly, people with children in tow, or those with strollers. I've been in the sardine can with a kid in tow and vowed to never put ourselves in that dangerous situation again. I've seen videos of stampedes and trampling, and people think that only happens in poorer countries. But it doesn't. It can happen anywhere. And I believe will inevitably happen here sooner rather than later. Just look at that Sammy Yatim video. It was off-peak on a semi-crowded streetcar. One guy whips out a knife, and people instinctively push/shove/scramble over each other to get out. Now imagine that with 1000x the people, in a narrow disjointed subway platform, with narrow disjointed ingress/egress points. And let's not get into the potential for a terror-related incident...

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I agree taking line 1 in rush hour is a miserable experience for anyone who lives in central Toronto. However, judging by the comments from 905 people on this post, people in York region couldn't care less about that, and somehow think that TTC subway service is their right even though they don't actually live in Toronto or pay property taxes here. So it's up to those of us who live in Toronto, which actually owns the subway the last time I checked, to pressure our politicians to kill this ridiculous idea.

All this whiiiiiining. Boo hoo, foreigners are taking my seat!

What's your solution? People live north of you. Too bad. The good news, you'll be happy to know, is the vast majority drive so they clog up the roads (your roads, though! Paid for by Toronto taxpayers!) and but a small minority stoop to take transit.

So don't extend the subway. But don't delude yourself it improves your chances of getting a seat. You don't even understand what the problem is much less have a solution. Just wait until fare integration makes it easier for 905ers to get on board!

I asked how you're going to keep them off "your" train and out of "your" Zoo and even "your" often overcrowded Island ferry. You don't have an answer.

But that's because there isn't one.

And Palma, everyone already knows you don't know about anything north of Sheppard. Since we established you thought peoplecould get to Richmond Hill without going through Markham or Vaughan, your comments have been weighed accordingly.

 

[WislaHD]

No exaggeration needed. The situation is royally f'd, and we know for a fact there's huge latent demand of people who have already said "screw this mess, I'd rather crawl to work than put myself in that situation".

Indeed. Yesterday, San Fransisco's BART were unusually honest about the transit predicament they are in on Social Media.

This is not a situation unfamiliar to Toronto's case. It demonstrates how hugely burdened we are and how insane it is to be adding more riders to the spine of our system.

 

[WislaHD]

I asked how you're going to keep them off "your" train and out of "your" Zoo and even "your" often overcrowded Island ferry. You don't have an answer.

But that's because there isn't one.

There is an answer. York Region just doesn't like it because it requires prioritizing another subway line first.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

There is an answer. York Region just doesn't like it because it requires prioritizing another subway line first.

That's a band aid. It doesn't solve the lack of coordination between land use and transit. It buys time.

You can't not-add riders (though they can be discouraged by crappy service) . You can just stick your finger in the dike for a while.

 

[WislaHD]

That's a band aid. It doesn't solve the lack of coordination between land use and transit. It buys time.

That band aid would allow for enough extra capacity for York Region to get it's second TTC subway to Richmond Hill. Nobody disputes the viability of the Yonge North extension. In any case, ridership projections mean that this band aid answer is now no longer just a band-aid but will also be an absolutely needed and integral component of our future network. (Not to mention a pre-requisite of the very important Yonge North extension)

As @drum118 said many pages ago, in the long run we are screwed. Yonge subway simply does not have the capacity to support it's ridership projections post-2045.

 

[Megaton327]

That's a band aid. It doesn't solve the lack of coordination between land use and transit. It buys time.

You can't not-add riders (though they can be discouraged by crappy service) . You can just stick your finger in the dike for a while.

Why exactly are you so incapable of looking at incredibly simple facts that are put before you? Okay, we get it, you're whiny because you demand a subway, good for you. I don't think anybody really cares. After your hundredth post demanding a subway and ignoring all factual evidence that states it is clearly not feasible, I for one am getting pretty tired of your whining. If you're not willing to have a rational, competent, civilized conversation with others about the facts behind the situation, why don't you just keep your opinions to yourself? You've been monopolizing the last ten or twenty pages of this thread--it's gotten pretty annoying having to scroll past all of your responses--making the exact same posts again and again and again and again and again and again and again. You keep saying we have to provide a subway to YR, other posters state that there is no room for passengers on the line already built+operating to ride it, you reply that we should ignore that and cram more people on it anyway because oh gee golly gosh what on Earth would we ever do if not that to which other people point to DRL/ST/RER to which you say no for absolutely no reason. Enough already. We get it. You can stop repeating yourself--please just accept you are wrong, and calm down.

Edit: for the record, I am very, very strongly in favour of the YNSE to RHC, I have recently moved to Aurora and I would certainly welcome the ability to take VIVA to RHC and subway from there for less-deep (non-Union) trips downtown. However, and again this comes as a York Region resident who formerly lived in Toronto and relied on the subway extensively, I will protest the YNSE as strongly as I possibly can to any elected official who will listen until it is established that the DRL and ST/RER will be in service before the YNSE is.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That's a band aid. It doesn't solve the lack of coordination between land use and transit. It buys time.

You can't not-add riders (though they can be discouraged by crappy service) . You can just stick your finger in the dike for a while.

You are so blatantly self serving, it hurts.

We get it. YNSE is needed above all else, everyone else in the region be damned.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That's a band aid. It doesn't solve the lack of coordination between land use and transit. It buys time.

Haha, okay. And what about all the transit oriented development elsewhere on the Yonge corridor that the YNSE will be detrimental towards?

 

[drum118]

Its a good thing I will be gone by the time the Yonge Line Crash from shear volume of riders south of Eglinton let a lone getting up to Steeles.

What you will have at Steeles is a funnel that is wide at the top, thin at the bottom that gets clog up and overflows.

What you have is a pipe starting off at 10 feet wide at Steeles and by the time it hits Eglinton, its down to 4 ft. At Bloor its down to 1 ft and only 4 inches come King.

If you got lines 6 ft wide flowing into this long pipe that keep getting smaller at various point, what happens to the flow in those 6 ft pipe as where does it go?? The flow in those 6 ft pipe start backup that in turn start backing up other pipes feeding into it.

Somewhere along the Yonge Line due to the pressure on it, it will break causing a spill out and complete shut down.

Now what good is taking this funnel from Steeles and moving to Hwy 7 only to have the line brake at Eglinton with nothing flowing south of it??

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Why exactly are you so incapable of looking at incredibly simple facts that are put before you? Okay, we get it, you're whiny because you demand a subway, good for you. I don't think anybody really cares. After your hundredth post demanding a subway and ignoring all factual evidence that states it is clearly not feasible, I for one am getting pretty tired of your whining.

That's the closest I have to a WHINING emjoi for you. And for you, Metgaton327, and the other poets of UrbanToronto that's not what I said. I'm neither WHINING nor DEMANDING a subway. I'm explaining the situation which many -but not all here - already understand.

(As tired as you are of me "monopolizing" things, I'm tired of being told things I said that I didn't say.)

You can't change the fact that huge numbers of people live north of downtown and so they'll keep taking the subway. The City of Toronto is eyeing 1000s of new residents north of Finch too, and they'll take your seats too. I live in York Region and I take it, whether or not the line is extended. that's already true of thousands of others. As so many people here LOVE pointing out, even the Metrolinx study shows the capacity you open with the DRL will be used by 2031, right? So how does that help poor Pman get a seat? How is it an answer to the problem?

To "answer" Tigermaster's "question," your best prospects for improving things involve a series of far-reaching policy actions that:
a) promote TOD in suburban corridors where possible (ie Yonge)
b) promote more mixed-use communities outside downtown, so not everyone is going there
c) provide a series of transportation options (e.g. RER)
d) use revenue tools and other measures to not only fund transit but also discourage auto use

Everyone's so hung up on the micro they can't see how this plays out regionwide - how transit capacity and road capacity are related, for example. I could go on (obviously). but the DRL is not going to singlehandedly solve downstream crowding on Yonge is the point. And most of you know that already, so take a chill pill. Or go protest to your politicians. It doesn't matter much to me.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

No, I know. But you could've done more due diligence in providing up-to-date numbers in this comparison. The numbers in that Neptis report are from 2001. We've had two censuses since then, and finding the density numbers for 2011 isn't all that hard to do. Well, it can be. But they exist, and I posted the 2011 UGC density numbers a few times over the last year (and seem to recall giving you the link one of those times).

I think it was actually BMO who mentioned some of your graphics were outdated, out of context etc. But whatever. As a superficial olive leaf, these density comparisons are from the 2011 report on the Langstaff Secondary Plan. they probably give a relatively decent apples/apples density comparison. Much better than the numbers I posted way back, anyway.

 

[Cobra]

I think it was actually BMO who mentioned some of your graphics were outdated, out of context etc. But whatever. As a superficial olive leaf, these density comparisons are from the 2011 report on the Langstaff Secondary Plan. they probably give a relatively decent apples/apples density comparison. Much better than the numbers I posted way back, anyway.
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sorry to be the troublemaker...

The key word is proposed...

In other words, you're comparing areas :

A)where the ridership is already there for a subway with some of those like the King area could use more
VS
B)Where the ridership is projected to meet subway capacity (York)
Projections have never been wrong right...

Sorry but there's something called "Priorities" and most of us here are just telling you to "wait your damn turn"

PS: that a very poor reading of data... If I were to imitate you, more avenues around NYC should get their own subway lines before York...see how it doesn't make sense?

 

[Forgotten]

You're spinning hypotheticals up the wazoo.

"Plans change."