Transportfan
Senior Member
I don't think the platforms are long enough for that.
Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Nope. Our platforms are designed for maximum of 7 car trains.
GenerationW
Senior Member
From the department of vague votes.Live from City Hall
A.K.A
Wait for your turn!
The real question is what would Council do if York Region lined up funding for Yonge. Would they really stand united against a funded subway because there's little progress on a DRL? I think they'd buckle in a New York minute.
And it shows how weak Toronto's position on transit has become that we have to keep asking Metrolinx's permission for seemingly everything.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Council would do the responsible thing and say no to a Yonge extension until DRL opens.
What else would Toronto do? Metrolinx is paying for all this.
GenerationW
Senior Member
Did you watch Council today? They took a gazillion votes without really deciding much of anything. Almost everyone walked away happy because they all think they got what they wanted.
Faced with a funded subway, I have no doubt Council would fold.
The Province is paying for it. What's new is that Metrolinx now essentially controls design and construction of transit expansion, and the TTC has been relegated to an advisory role (all in the name of accounting rules we're told). Major loss of power for Toronto.
Ansem
Banned
If a strong council was there, (not the pathetic current one) they could imitate Montreal.
When the Laval extension was funded and build by the province, Laval refused to pay for their share of operating costs and the extra fares for their citizens. Montreal's council gave notice to the Province that until Laval paid up, they would short turn every trains at Henri-Bourassa.
The province stepped in, and Laval started to pay and everyone was happy. The Province could not force the STM from not serving Laval.
TTC controls the operating side. If the Province wants to force the York extension, nothing prevents the TTC from short turning all trains at Steeles. TTC is not even subsidize by the province.
JayBeeGooner
Active Member
The platforms can FIT a maximum of 7 car trains, and even that would be a tight fit.
BurlOak
Senior Member
I say you let the trains ectend beyound the platform. For some stations (I.e. North of Bloor) the from car is off the station and other stations it is the last car. For a few of the busy stations, the platform can be extended. With walk through trains - no one is trapped.
Although this is not the ideal way to build a subway, it is analogous the the QEW, gardener, 401, etc. Where they squeeze in an extra lane and live with sub-standard shoulders.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
You can add an extra train, but the issue at peak goes way beyond capacity of the trains themselves - there is the issue of platform crowding to consider. Yonge-Bloor is already somewhat unsafe (ditto a few others, like King, Queen, Dundas, College under some conditions), and god forbid there should be a delay somewhere on the Yonge line when you have 7 car trains. Plus with platform conditions like that you'd probably get tons more delays at the station themselves, leading to increased station dwell time. Things sounds great on spreadsheets, but it's fantasyland until you actually have a first hand look a the on the ground operational conditions.
AoD
AoD
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
IMHO, Toronto council yesterday abdicated any right to comment on regional or local transit.
They spent 2 days deciding they want more transit than already allocated and for less money. They tried to add more projects into the priority line ahead of projects like this one while expressing no willingness to pay for it. Meanwhile, York Region has stood firm in their desire to build rapid transit and to pay their share and it is, any way you slice it, a crucial project.
If Toronto wants to build the DRL or the Scarborough subway or the North York Relief Line (sigh), they've made that their own problem. Metrolinx can deal with the rest of the region. Really, 416ers should be ashamed that 905 municipalities have been driving the discussion.
Toronto council said yesterday, in effect, we're not going to wear this and if the province wants to fund new transit, that's on them. That attitude cuts both ways.
As for the 7-car idea...the fact that a long train would extend beyond the platform actually seems kind of meaningless given that the new cars are all connected. It means you have to get to one of the platform cars when it's time to get off but if you're, say, getting on at Finch and going to Union, there's no reason you can't go to the back/front of the train for your ride...
d
They spent 2 days deciding they want more transit than already allocated and for less money. They tried to add more projects into the priority line ahead of projects like this one while expressing no willingness to pay for it. Meanwhile, York Region has stood firm in their desire to build rapid transit and to pay their share and it is, any way you slice it, a crucial project.
If Toronto wants to build the DRL or the Scarborough subway or the North York Relief Line (sigh), they've made that their own problem. Metrolinx can deal with the rest of the region. Really, 416ers should be ashamed that 905 municipalities have been driving the discussion.
Toronto council said yesterday, in effect, we're not going to wear this and if the province wants to fund new transit, that's on them. That attitude cuts both ways.
As for the 7-car idea...the fact that a long train would extend beyond the platform actually seems kind of meaningless given that the new cars are all connected. It means you have to get to one of the platform cars when it's time to get off but if you're, say, getting on at Finch and going to Union, there's no reason you can't go to the back/front of the train for your ride...
d
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
TJOP:
The time when you need to a 7 car train (i.e. peak) is exactly when you can't easily walk within the train to get anywhere.
AoD
The time when you need to a 7 car train (i.e. peak) is exactly when you can't easily walk within the train to get anywhere.
AoD
dowlingm
Senior Member
Absolute rubbish. The TRs are not a single unit, they were assembled into trains as each car arrived in Toronto. The 7th car would be a shortened 50ft unit. Maybe 1-2 would have to go to TB or Millhaven for validation testing but that's it.
HOWEVER, Steve Munro has pointed out that it would be very difficult to construct such a mid-train car which respected uniform spacing between platform edge doors. Assuming that the TTC does want to get that done some day, what might happen is that the TRs will head over to the Bloor-Danforth line and the Downtown Relief Line once the T1s life expire and TR2s composed of 7 uniform length cars replace them.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
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And what makes you think the province won't fund the DRL first? Or complete the North York Relief line. It does cut both ways. And in order to add on the ends you have to build on the core. The Liberals and Toronto get that.
denfromoakvillemilton
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Exactly, it would be worse then RHill.
nfitz
Superstar
Nothing prevents the province simply reconstituting the TTC and transferring subway operations to Metrolinx.
Nothing stops the province forcing the city to pay for TTC operating costs, even if run by the province.