Ansem
Banned
Spoken like someone who doesn't pay income tax?
Really...How much of the income taxes goes to the TTC beside Transit expansion that the city gets ONCE every decade, "on average"?
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Spoken like someone who doesn't pay income tax?
Really...How much of the income taxes goes to the TTC beside Transit expansion that the city gets ONCE every decade, "on average"?
0$
Using those numbers is dishonest. The city of Toronto is 630 km2, Scarborough 187km2. York Region is 1762km2 and runs from Steeles to Lake Simcoe.
Thornhill and Richmond Hill, the areas most closely affected by subway expansion have densities of 1670/km2 and 1838/km2 respectively.
What's most important however is that by far the bulk of these citizens live in the narrow band between Dufferin and Leslie, each just 4 km from Yonge Street.
Look at the GTA density map. York region is centered around Yonge Street and by providing Rapid Transit along this route alone will service most of the communities north of the city effectively.
South of Sheppard, it's pretty much useless for anybody in Toronto or anybody from YR not going to Union. A transfer at Eglinton would be tough, and a transfer at Bloor-Danforth would be so cumbersome that nobody would use it.
Oh if only we had fare integration. A rider arriving at Union would be able to use the spare capacity on the Yonge line to access areas further North, like Dundas and College Sts.
I only we had an organization that could bring the TTC and Go transit together under one roof. That could help work out discounted fares and fare splitting for the two organizations. Rather than the two ignoring each other. If only we had a universal way of paying our fares. That would make this integration easier and eliminate redundant fare media for different agencies....
What's that??? Metrolinx and Presto??? Never heard of them, are they a new comedy act?
To visualize it, I quickly grafted it onto my MoveToronto proposal. Again, just to show how it would look:
View attachment 12352
A far more useful proposal would be to build the DRL and have it use the Richmond Hill line's ROW north of Don Mills (neighbourhood). That way Richmond Hill would still be getting subway service, and it would still be actually be useful to anyone south of Sheppard. It would also doubly solve the Yonge capacity problem, as it would relieve the line further down, and stop the riders from Richmond Hill from even getting on the Yonge line.
That's not at all what I just said but if you want to go down that road I'll point out, for like the 20th time on this thread, that York Region AND Toronto completed an EA for the Yonge extension. it's effectively shovel ready. It was only during that process that the TTC started THINKING about the DRL. Toronto Council attached caveats but they already approved the Yonge extension. No reasonable person thinks the DRL isn't a priority or that isn't necessary to relieve the capacity issues but I'm not sure why the entire GTA should be punished for TTC's incompetence and lack of foresight.
Build both projects, start with the one that's actually ready.
On average... $8 billion divided by an 8 year implementation (by 2020)... maybe about $1 billion per year on average?
The infrastructure is paid for by the provincial government largely, and the operating costs are covered 70% or more by the farebox. You are responding to a comment "Generally, I don't find discussions that revolve around who pays what tax to be worthwhile." So if it is the city it is property tax, if it is the province it is some other tax... who cares. Either it is a worthwhile investment or it isn't.
I'll take the bait.
So what happens when, responding to citizens demands of not splitting their neighbourhoods in two with a VIVA Bllue LRT, Vaughan/York Region begin petitioning for further extensions to Aurora, and Newmarket. The densities are fairly similar to Richmond Hill/Markham, what then?
As I've stated there are going to be approx 12000 peak hour passengers arriving at RHC station, most from the Yonge area. What do we do? Continue to run the extension North? What rationale could we possibly use to help explain why we choose not to build this extension? I'm sure a quickly thrown together growth plan for the Upper Canada Mall area could do for Newmarket what the RHC growth plan did for Richmond Hill, thus creating similar circumstances and pushing that 12 000 passenger number up towards the 15 - 20 000 passenger number that "demands a subway"
Meanwhile we are telling people along Sheppard and Eglinton which have similar density figures that "an LRT is just ok for your. There there"
I'll take the bait.
So what happens when, responding to citizens demands of not splitting their neighbourhoods in two with a VIVA Bllue LRT, Vaughan/York Region begin petitioning for further extensions to Aurora, and Newmarket. The densities are fairly similar to Richmond Hill/Markham, what then?
What are you talking about? Look at the fiscal imbalance in this province. The north and rural areas receive a lot more in services, etc., than they take. The cities subsidize the north and rural areas, which generally aren't economically sustainable under our current model.PS: People in northern Ontario aren't exactly ecstatic to be paying for your transit either. But that's just how the world turns.
What are you talking about? Look at the fiscal imbalance in this province. The north and rural areas receive a lot more in services, etc., than they take. The cities subsidize the north and rural areas, which generally aren't economically sustainable under our current model.
The hospital analogy given above about why the DRL is needed first doesn't quite work, mostly because those patients are already in the hospital. Most of the people getting on at Finch are already coming from up north and so the first question is whether it isn't smart to bring the transit to them, realizing that you also need to do other things to deal with the new riders. If the funding comes through, they can likely be built within a couple of years of each other but I still don't see why the Yonge project should have to wait. In those few years, it won't make things any worse downstream than they already are. There will just be fewer cars and buses going to Finch which, it seems to me, is good for all concerned.