Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

So from what I gather, the Steeles station will be IN TORONTO along with the bus terminal?

Is that correct or there is no information on this.


I really really hope this is the case. Particularly if they develop it as part of a bigger development.
 
That is neat...

Yes, please! The cost of Sheppard West to Downsview would certainly be mitigated by the potential cost of building a new subway yard in York Region, especially as there's few places where it could make sense. It would also mitigate the effects of Transfer City. Wilson Yard has tonnes of room.

As for Bloor-Yonge, we all know here what the answer to that should be (D. R. L.), and isn't mentioned in the report.
 
They still haven't decided if they want an underground terminal or one that is something like the bus terminal at York Mills.
 
Back in the 80s, the need to expand Bloor-Yonge was one of the primary justifications for the DRL. The station expansion alone would cost hundreds of millions of dollars, close to half as much as the entire DRL, not to mention all the disruption. They studied it back then, and they determined that the DRL is far more cost effective than expanding Bloor-Yonge.
 
Building the DRL would help with the capacity problem (particularly if it ran up Don Mills and if GO lines are improved) but it'd also generate many thousands of trips out of thin air and a substantial new revenue source for the TTC that simply can't happen through fairly costly capacity improvements alone on the existing subway network.
 
So from what I gather, the Steeles station will be IN TORONTO along with the bus terminal?

Yonge-Steeles is the boundary for three municipalities. Especially if it is to be a major hub -- this would make sense -- it would be logical for the Steeles station to be "in" all three municipalities. Certainly most subway stations at most other major intersections provide entrances on all four corners; it is hard to imagine a good argument as to why that would be different here.

Yes, please! The cost of Sheppard West to Downsview would certainly be mitigated by the potential cost of building a new subway yard in York Region, especially as there's few places where it could make sense. It would also mitigate the effects of Transfer City. Wilson Yard has tonnes of room.

As for Bloor-Yonge, we all know here what the answer to that should be (D. R. L.), and isn't mentioned in the report.

Sheppard West to Downsview might also mitigate the capacity required at Bloor-Yonge -- it would provide commuters coming from the east with the means to shift their southbound commute to the University-Spadina arm.
 
It might a bit but I don't really know of anyone that would take the subway all the way around if they are already up at Sheppard ... unless there destination is close to bloor on the west side but I don't think there are too many trips like that overall.


Regarding my Steeles station comment I made it for the following reason:

I recall there was a desire to incorporate the bus terminal with a major development / office building. Something similar to York Mills station but on a larger scale. If that was the case I think that would go very well in centerpoint Mall's parking lot and would help the area a lot.
 
Sheppard West to Downsview might also mitigate the capacity required at Bloor-Yonge -- it would provide commuters coming from the east with the means to shift their southbound commute to the University-Spadina arm.

This could work out very well, if Sheppard was extended to Downsview. Since they are planning on short turning trains at Downsview anyway when extended to VCC, service in the AM (or even at all times) could be interlined:
-Don Mills-Finch
-VCC-Finch
 
I recall there was a desire to incorporate the bus terminal with a major development / office building. Something similar to York Mills station but on a larger scale. If that was the case I think that would go very well in centerpoint Mall's parking lot and would help the area a lot.

That does make sense but, as of now, it's not one of the options. They are looking at above-ground on the NORTH side of Steeles or possibly doing something UNDER Steeles, kinda like how St. Clair West is.

Train movement from the Wilson yard may be the key to extending Sheppard to Downsview which, IMHO, is one of the two keys to making that line relevant (the second being an extension to Scarborough).

I don't know how much that helps Bloor since it's not a DRL - more a suburban relief line, if anything. I figure it will help spread capacity around in the north half of the city allowing reconfiguration of bus routes and could help Bloor-Yonge by allowing people heading to/from the west half of downtown to use the Spadina line instead of going round the loop. Firmly in the category of "better than nothing," IMHO.

299 raises a damned fine point about the short turns taking place at Finch - it's the sort of thing that can slide right by you as you skim the documents. I have to assume they mean Steeles and that's the sort of oversight likely to get corrected in the seven or 8 years between now and when the trains start running...
 
299 raises a damned fine point about the short turns taking place at Finch - it's the sort of thing that can slide right by you as you skim the documents. I have to assume they mean Steeles and that's the sort of oversight likely to get corrected in the seven or 8 years between now and when the trains start running...

If you look at the plan though, it appears the short turn is planned for Finch, as they are planning to build a revised tail track structure with a storage/turnback track just north of the station. That's what is worrying me right now. And it's unlikely they'd build two storage track structures two stations apart. (See slide 29)
 
So from what I gather, the Steeles station will be IN TORONTO along with the bus terminal?

Is that correct or there is no information on this.


I really really hope this is the case. Particularly if they develop it as part of a bigger development.

I say build it on the north side of steeles and use the south side for development, and let Toronto keep the additional tax revenue.....
 
If you look at the plan though, it appears the short turn is planned for Finch, as they are planning to build a revised tail track structure with a storage/turnback track just north of the station. That's what is worrying me right now. And it's unlikely they'd build two storage track structures two stations apart. (See slide 29)

Well, the tail track is there already. There are three tracks north of Finch right now. I imagine this has something to do with it. Plus, why even bother turning trains back at
Steeles, which is so close to the end of the line anyway? Finch is just as valid of a location.

How many bus routes will be serving Steeles stations that have not already passed by a Yonge line station (and dropped off their passengers) before reaching Steeles? Steeles East, Steeles West, YRT route 2, YRT route 23... It would make sense to re-route YRT routes 88 Bathurst and 91 Bayview to Richmond Hill Centre and create new Bathurst/Bayview South buses so only 6 routes in total. Steeles will be busy, but it won't be so busy that having every second train go there should cause any issues.
 
From a purely technical POV, short-turning at Finch does make sense, if there must be a short turn. If memory serves me correctly, Finch buses pour in a plurality of Finch station riders but Finch riders won't be riding the Yonge extension. Also, relatively few YRT riders will actually be funnelled to Steeles station since the subway extension will be replacing Viva Blue. Also also, Steeles buses pour in lots of riders, but many Steeles East riders, in particular, are extremely likely to switch to other rapid transit lines given improvements on these lines, like Stouffville and Richmond Hill GO (should they build a station at Steeles), because so many Steeles East riders are taking the 53 rather long distances just to get to the subway because there's no other transit options.

Really, what's the big deal about short-turning at Finch instead of Steeles? Currently, there's not that many jobs at Steeles or along the extension and connecting routes to Seneca and York U are reached by Finch, so few reverse commuters are affected at all. Even if rush hour frequency is "reduced" to 4 minutes instead of the X seconds it'll be south of Finch, that's still an improvement over getting stuck in traffic on Yonge...traffic partially caused by the buses themselves. Honestly, the TTC risks losing riders if Finch station goes from being an almost sure-seat station to being as crowded as a spot like St. Clair, where seats are hopeless. The TTC depends on a ridership base that wants to take transit and likes doing so. Messing with our goodwill is like thinking about eating a golden egg-laying goose...there's definitely room in some areas for traffic to get a lot worse.

edit - oh, and the TTC report suggests that Steeles station will indeed be north of the intersection, probably with the southern exit right at Steeles (based on a projection of 1998m between Finch and Steeles stations, and since Finch station is north of Finch).
 
At the very minimum, the signaling improvements should be extended to St. George. Otherwise, it will be a significant inconvenience for the large number of riders going "around the horn" and would further exacerbate overcrowding at Union.

The yard issue is significant, and a major opportunity for the Sheppard West extension. That would shave off significant deadhead time, and allow for further expansion of Wilson. Developing the Davisville Yard site could make up a significant percentage of the construction cost of the extension. Vaughan is also probably the best place for further yard expansion in the future. Perhaps they could try to co-locate something with Mac Yard. Yonge right up to Richmond Hill is probably too densely developed to acquire a yard site for a reasonable price.
 
The only obvious potential site for a yard on the Richmond Hill extension is where they are going to put the commuter parking lot.
 

Back
Top