Toronto West Don Lands: Block 13 | 139.31m | 43s | Dream | Henriquez Partners

Star Fox said:
I really couldn't disagree with this feedback more. This is how we end up getting monotonous, boring buildings.

The combo of brick gradient, sunshades, and staggered balconies is too much? Gradient will be toned down by making it monotone. Sunshades will be toned down by removing them. Staggered balconies will be toned down by making wraparound balconies.

All of a sudden we'll be left with a boring building that looks like all the others.
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I agree, these comments at the meeting are disappointing, even depressing. They are essentially saying: make the building cheaper and blander. They are also maximizing the density by going with the second massing option, so Toronto could end up with yet another boring, ugly, grey but huge building without any distinctive character. I don't see how such a building will be able to "extend the character of the Distillery District into the Canary District"... :(

An another note. Even after a decade, it's still not clear from even the latest plans how the Canary District could connect with the Portlands (Villiers Island) or even to the East Bayfront? The Canary District today is sort of an urban enclave, with the Don River and the Don Valley Parkway cutting it off from the East, a three-way highway system with overpasses (Richmond, Eastern, Adelaide) cutting it off from the North, and massive Go Transit railtracks plus the Gardiner cutting it off from the South. There is nothing that can be done about the East or the North, but is there a future vision on how the Canary could open more towards new neighbourhoods emerging in the South (Portlands - Villiers Island) and the Southwest (East Bayfront)? Beyond individual building designs, this issue will undoubtedly have the biggest impact on livability.
 
Coming to TEYCC: See: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2022.TE34.98


Toronto and East York Community Council consideration on June 29, 2022
TE34.98
ACTION​
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Ward: 13​
495 Front Street East (Block 13 in the West Don Lands Precinct Plan) - Zoning Amendment Application - Preliminary Report

Summary​
This report provides information and identifies a preliminary set of issues for the Zoning By-law Amendment application located at 495 Front Street East for a mixed use building ranging in height from 7 to 13-storeys, with a 31-storey tower located at the south-west corner of the site. The proposal includes 279 parking spaces and 898 bicycle parking spaces.​
 
DSC said:
Coming to TEYCC: See: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2022.TE34.98


Toronto and East York Community Council consideration on June 29, 2022
TE34.98
ACTION​
​
​
Ward: 13​
495 Front Street East (Block 13 in the West Don Lands Precinct Plan) - Zoning Amendment Application - Preliminary Report
​
Summary​
This report provides information and identifies a preliminary set of issues for the Zoning By-law Amendment application located at 495 Front Street East for a mixed use building ranging in height from 7 to 13-storeys, with a 31-storey tower located at the south-west corner of the site. The proposal includes 279 parking spaces and 898 bicycle parking spaces.​
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I will be attending to let waterfront Toronto know that as a resident of the area, it’s actually okay if this building looks like it exists and has an in interesting design.
 
From the Development Dashboard of tomorrow's IREC meeting:

1664398255718.png
 
Any thoughts on the 31 story tower portion of the project? Seems like they never had it in the original plans.

Feels like a bit too much density to me.

I say this because Block 13 in total will have 859 units, while next door Cherry Commons, Cherry District and Cherry House have 401, 369 and 444 units. Even Maple House condos with three towers has 770 units.
In other words, as it stands today Block 13 has more units than all three Maple house buildings, or just Cherry House + Cherry Commons.
 
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blitzraj1 said:
Any thoughts on the 31 story tower portion of the project? Seems like they never had it in the original plans.

Feels like a bit too much density to me.

I say this because Block 13 in total will have 859 units, while next Cherry Commons, Cherry District and Cherry House have 401, 369 and 444 units. Even Maple House condos with three towers has 770 units.
In other words, as it stands today Block 13 has more units than all three Maple house buildings, or just Cherry House + Cherry Commons.
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I think the issue is that the other developments were not dense enough. There are not currently enough residents in this neighbourhood to support a robust retail presence along front. With future proximity to East Harbour, and its gateway like access to the Portlands, this neighbourhood is going to become a lot more central in the next 10 years.

I also think this tower will complement River City quite nicely.
 
blitzraj1 said:
Any thoughts on the 31 story tower portion of the project? Seems like they never had it in the original plans.

Feels like a bit too much density to me.

I say this because Block 13 in total will have 859 units, while next Cherry Commons, Cherry District and Cherry House have 401, 369 and 444 units. Even Maple House condos with three towers has 770 units.
In other words, as it stands today Block 13 has more units than all three Maple house buildings, or just Cherry House + Cherry Commons.
Click to expand...
The 202X future-development math has to work to cover the 20% Affordable Rental requirement on the that parcel, as required by WaterfrontTO.

The additional-density is being used to off-set the challenges with construction costs, slow timelines, high interest-rates on construction loans - and project risk.

Similar to the added height, density and units being added on another recent project - https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...65m-23s-tricon-graziani-corazza.24419/page-10
 
lomeri said:
I think the issue is that the other developments were not dense enough. There are not currently enough residents in this neighbourhood to support a robust retail presence along front. With future proximity to East Harbour, and its gateway like access to the Portlands, this neighbourhood is going to become a lot more central in the next 10 years.

I also think this tower will complement River City quite nicely.
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just a question for anyone in general, because I've seen this argument made before. But what density is required to support what retail? Shops like Footlocker didn't last - but most of the other condos were under construction at the time. Sukothai, Dark Horse and Fuel have been around since the beginning- the Aviary, the convenience store have hung in there for awhile. And now Marché Leo is putting money into that location. Aisle24 felt their business was good enough at Harris Square to go and put a smaller shop in the Distillery. So what businesses would have gone into Front St. if the surrounding buildings were 20-30 storeys each?

Gears had the largest space, no? More density would have made that a what? A Rabba? Some times it feels like successful retail depends on the category, other times it's a bit of a crapshoot. Long & McQuade has zero parking right? Not a lot of vehicles stopping right at that intersection so close to the police station, doesnt feel too convenient- and yet it's still there.

From what I understand, rents in Canary early on were one of those deals that it was percentage of sales rather than flat rate- so arguably, if a shop doesnt do well enough to have hung on- then when rents went back to basic, wouldn't the market value just reflect the area and allow a different business to use the spot? (Like a restaurant that doesnt need foot traffic because they have busy take out?).

Taking a look at Bremner off lower Simcoe, which has pretty high density- they've got an Aroma Espresso, Hoops Sports Bar, 4 fast food joints in small shops and a Hasty Market. Around the corner the same building has some health & dental centres along with a dry cleaner. Which seems somewhat comparative to Front St in Canary atm. How do retail chains calculate things?

Canary plus Harris Square & RC3 is 4369 units, or upwards of 6553 residents, and that doesn't count the rest of River City, Cherry House or the Distillery, which would get us past the 10k mark. Comparatively Cityplace has 17k. What more would we get with that extra 7k?
 
blitzraj1 said:
Any thoughts on the 31 story tower portion of the project? Seems like they never had it in the original plans.

Feels like a bit too much density to me.

I say this because Block 13 in total will have 859 units, while next door Cherry Commons, Cherry District and Cherry House have 401, 369 and 444 units. Even Maple House condos with three towers has 770 units.
In other words, as it stands today Block 13 has more units than all three Maple house buildings, or just Cherry House + Cherry Commons.
Click to expand...
Bring on the density. The neighbourhood is so dead today. Needs an infusion of people to make it feel less abandoned. It’s my only gripe about the neighbourhood, and I live in it.
 
If they're waiting out for economic certainties and alignment of favourable external market forces, they could be waiting for an eternity...
 
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