Toronto Waterlink at Pier 27 | 43.89m | 14s | Cityzen | a—A

[ahmad.m.atiya]

I know. If they'd only convert it to something like refining plutonium, it'd make a lot more money.

Comment of the year

that sounds pretty ridiculous when Redpath has been there for the last 60 years. People should just not buy here if they are afraid of an explosion.

Of course! Why build anything at all. We should leave whatever was there previously, obviously it had been there for X decades.

I went to the Port Lands consultation meetings, and the GM of Economic Development and Culture for the City said that Toronto has the second largest food processing industry in North America, and that the sugar provide by Redpath is critical to that industry. Thus, while direct employment might be low, the indirect employment that Redpath produces is likely high. I think this also means that until a replacement site with port access is found, Redpath probably isn't moving.

Yes, because those industries would be devastated by the extra 2 minutes it takes for trucks to reach them from a new Redpath facility -.-

 

[Tulse]

those industries would be devastated by the extra 2 minutes it takes for trucks to reach them from a new Redpath facility -.-

If you've been to Sugar Beach, you should have noted how important port access is to Redpath, as that's the way its raw materials come in.

 

[fouronesix]

Yes, because those industries would be devastated by the extra 2 minutes it takes for trucks to reach them from a new Redpath facility -.-

I think you're estimates on increased travel times might be a bit off. The key thing about the current location of the Redpath facility is that it is in an area that is accessible to ships. Sure they could relocate elsewhere in Toronto's harbour, but the associated costs would likely be significant. The only other harbour that I can think of that's remotely close is in Hamilton, but that would definitely lead to increased travel times beyond two minutes.

 

[unimaginative2]

The point is that if Redpath closes, it's likely gone. They can keep it going with all of their plant written off decades ago. If they had to pay to build a completely new plant, they'd likely move somewhere else.

Plus, Redpath is cool. I love seeing the ships come in when I'm at Sugar Beach. It's definitely a lot more interesting than even more Harbour Square-esque condos like Pier 27.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Plus, Redpath is cool. I love seeing the ships come in when I'm at Sugar Beach. It's definitely a lot more interesting than even more Harbour Square-esque condos like Pier 27.

Cool I like that

 

[ahmad.m.atiya]

I think you're estimates on increased travel times might be a bit off. The key thing about the current location of the Redpath facility is that it is in an area that is accessible to ships. Sure they could relocate elsewhere in Toronto's harbour, but the associated costs would likely be significant. The only other harbour that I can think of that's remotely close is in Hamilton, but that would definitely lead to increased travel times beyond two minutes.

I truly hope that you're joking. An increase in the magnitude of several hours is not a big deal to an industrial facility. Small bakeries may be affected by little issues like that, but a factory as large as Redpath needs a ton of logistical planning, even when delivering something next door.

If you've been to Sugar Beach, you should have noted how important port access is to Redpath, as that's the way its raw materials come in.

Hamilton is a 100 times better port than downtown Toronto will ever be.

 

[old boy]

Cool I like that

Taking Redpath out of the mix, the only sugar at the beach would be scattered under metal umbrellas.

 

[neubilder]

I really wish they would just get rid of Redpath. The BS people keep mentioning about employment is so over exaggerated. The whole factory doesn't even employ as many people as a regular 2 storey office building -.-

Do you also wish they would tear down the decommissioned grain silos? And do you think the cement plant at the foot of cherry should be given the boot?

The sugar refinery is an industrial use that is compatible with the changing demographics of the area. I would hate for all of Toronto to be one homogenized bank of cubicles containing housing units, service industries, and corporate hq's. I like the sugar plant, and I like the cement plant. And I lament the fact that other industries have been forced to move out or close up shop entirely. Not the noxious ones of course, but things like bakeries, furniture manufacturers, and other light industries.

You are a minority in your dislike of the sugar plant, you've made it clear that you don't like it, but there is no point in repeating it ad nauseum.

One thing I really don't get though, is the 'Neutral observer' bit under your moniker.

 

[fouronesix]

I truly hope that you're joking. An increase in the magnitude of several hours is not a big deal to an industrial facility. Small bakeries may be affected by little issues like that, but a factory as large as Redpath needs a ton of logistical planning, even when delivering something next door.

If you think that I'm joking, you must have a strange sense of humour. And since you're such a food processing industry logistics expert, I suggest you contact Redpath, the Toronto Industry Network, and the General Manager of Economic Development for Toronto (all of whom have expressed in no uncertain terms that Redpath will be staying in its current location for the foreseeable future) and let them know that "2 minutes" is shorthand for "several hours" and that "several hours" increased transport time is obviously no big deal, I'm sure they'll be impressed.

 

[fouronesix]

One thing I really don't get though, is the 'Neutral observer' bit under your moniker.

It reminds me of Fox News' "Fair and Balanced" slogan. He must be a neutral observer; why else would he say he is?

 

[ahmad.m.atiya]

Do you also wish they would tear down the decommissioned grain silos? And do you think the cement plant at the foot of cherry should be given the boot?

The sugar refinery is an industrial use that is compatible with the changing demographics of the area. I would hate for all of Toronto to be one homogenized bank of cubicles containing housing units, service industries, and corporate hq's. I like the sugar plant, and I like the cement plant. And I lament the fact that other industries have been forced to move out or close up shop entirely. Not the noxious ones of course, but things like bakeries, furniture manufacturers, and other light industries.

You are a minority in your dislike of the sugar plant, you've made it clear that you don't like it, but there is no point in repeating it ad nauseum.

One thing I really don't get though, is the 'Neutral observer' bit under your moniker.

The only industry that belongs in a modern city is the SERVICE industry. Anything else poses problems for everyone. Contamination/explosion risks, logistical problem (do you want 18 wheelers driving through downtown?), etc. Obviously, I'm only naming a few of the many issues involved, aside from the obvious obnoxious noise/smell/etc. Also, you seem to completely forget that an industrial plant is extremely taxing to the city's infrastructure. Wouldn't it be better for everyone if industrial plants all moved to an area where they can be specifically targeted by enhanced infrastructure and facilities more suitable for their needs?

As for the "Neutral Observer" part, I do believe that I'm looking at this from a non-biased fact based perspective. There's a reason that 99% of all factories in any major city in the world are not located downtown. Let me guess, you oppose this, and you are all for increasing downtown Toronto's rail coverage?

If you think that I'm joking, you must have a strange sense of humour. And since you're such a food processing industry logistics expert, I suggest you contact Redpath, the Toronto Industry Network, and the General Manager of Economic Development for Toronto (all of whom have expressed in no uncertain terms that Redpath will be staying in its current location for the foreseeable future) and let them know that "2 minutes" is shorthand for "several hours" and that "several hours" increased transport time is obviously no big deal, I'm sure they'll be impressed.

Most factories in Toronto don't even receive their supplies from inside of Toronto. I'm willing to bet that even other industrial facilities within the city that utilize Redpath's products also require product shipments from areas much further than the GTA. Has increased delivery time for shipments crippled China's industrial sector? Funny, because it seems like that sector is thriving, despite its large separation from the developed world.

It reminds me of Fox News' "Fair and Balanced" slogan. He must be a neutral observer; why else would he say he is?

My opinion stems from sound logic. I approached this issue in complete neutrality, but upon seeing the various factors in effect, it is clear that Redpath needs to leave.

 

[fouronesix]

Wouldn't it be better for everyone if industrial plants all moved to an area where they can be specifically targeted by enhanced infrastructure and facilities more suitable for their needs?

There's a reason that 99% of all factories in any major city in the world are not located downtown. Let me guess, you oppose this, and you are all for increasing downtown Toronto's rail coverage?

One of the main reasons that industry has moved to the periphery of urban areas is because of the shift to just-in-time delivery in the logistics chain. This type of delivery is truck-based and thus access to highways is privileged in location decisions. That being said, not all inputs in the production of goods can be transported by truck, e.g. unprocessed sugar from the Caribbean. Thus access to other transportation infrastructure, such as ports, may be privileged in location decisions.

The sugar that Redpath receives simply must come in by ship, and therefore this particular industrial facility needs access to a port. Given that the only ports within the Greater Golden Horseshoe are in Toronto and Hamilton, the location choices are quite limited. While the costs arising from the increased distance between Redpath and its food processing customers should it relocate to Hamilton might not be crippling, the costs of physically relocating the plant would be quite significant. Why would a company choose to spend money to relocate when the benefits of doing so are marginal to non-existent at best?

But oh yeah, the only industry that belongs in a modern city is the SERVICE "industry". Now that's logic.

 

[unimaginative2]

As for the "Neutral Observer" part, I do believe that I'm looking at this from a non-biased fact based perspective.

Haha...you do realize that everybody believes this about themselves, right?

Given that the only ports within the Greater Golden Horseshoe are in Toronto and Hamilton, the location choices are quite limited.

There are some other areas that handle large ships. Port Weller is a major shipping centre at the head of the Welland Canal. The cement plant in Clarington, the chemical plant in Clarkson, the late Lakeview Generating Station, and the former refinery in Oakville all have facilities to handle large ships.

 

[ahmad.m.atiya]

One of the main reasons that industry has moved to the periphery of urban areas is because of the shift to just-in-time delivery in the logistics chain. This type of delivery is truck-based and thus access to highways is privileged in location decisions. That being said, not all inputs in the production of goods can be transported by truck, e.g. unprocessed sugar from the Caribbean. Thus access to other transportation infrastructure, such as ports, may be privileged in location decisions.

The sugar that Redpath receives simply must come in by ship, and therefore this particular industrial facility needs access to a port. Given that the only ports within the Greater Golden Horseshoe are in Toronto and Hamilton, the location choices are quite limited. While the costs arising from the increased distance between Redpath and its food processing customers should it relocate to Hamilton might not be crippling, the costs of physically relocating the plant would be quite significant. Why would a company choose to spend money to relocate when the benefits of doing so are marginal to non-existent at best?

But oh yeah, the only industry that belongs in a modern city is the SERVICE "industry". Now that's logic.

I don't deny that the cost of relocation will be high! However, if this is the only thing stopping the factory from relocating, we are obviously not looking at the best interest of the local population. In my opinion, the government should assist Redpath in finding a new home somewhere far, far away from downtown. Perhaps tax breaks? or guarantees to provide the infrastructure at a new location? Besides this, the land that Redpath currently occupies is of much higher value than comparable industrial land in Hamilton, or wherever they decide to go. That alone might be enough to offset the cost of relocating.

I'm fairly certain that Redpath will be gone once that area is more thoroughly developed and more of those parking lots are converted to buildings. I'm gonna guess that it won't be too long after the Pan-Am games that it will finally be demolished.

Haha...you do realize that everybody believes this about themselves, right?

Ahaha good point

 

[Tulse]

I don't deny that the cost of relocation will be high! However, if this is the only thing stopping the factory from relocating, we are obviously not looking at the best interest of the local population. In my opinion, the government should assist Redpath in finding a new home somewhere far, far away from downtown.

Since residents haven't moved in yet to Waterlink, there isn't any "local population". Perhaps it would be cheaper for the government to protect the public by buying up the incomplete Waterlink and thus keep people away from the plant.