Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

[Northern Light]

I was thinking of that TTC upgrade the other day. They were promising that with the automation, trains could be run "closer together", lessening the wait times. Yet with recent cuts to service, they are saying wait times will increase, as well as prices.

The service reductions and the price increase are political choices, and unrelated to Automatic Train Control (the signal upgrades to which are you are referring).

Those signal upgrades were only done to Line 1, not to Line 2, 3 or 4. There is also some minor outstanding work on Line 1 for sidings and the like which may or may not have been completed yet.

Makes me also wonder what happened to the promises of 15 mins service on Lakeshore East and 20 mins on Lakeshore West pre-pandemic. We got that for such a short amount of time. These are both 30 min service now post-pandemic with no indications of returning to the speedier service.

Lakeshore East is currently the subject of major construction both for the Ontario Line and the LSE Corridor expansion east thereof adding a 4th track, so it's unlikely 15M off-peak will be returning there for awhile.

LSW could see it restored tomorrow if Metrolinx were given the $$ and the political push.(subject to having enough staff) Again a choice largely made at the Ministerial level; though likely recommended by Mx, partially due to lower ridership, but also to deal with staff shortages and construction.

 

[Student99]

The service reductions and the price increase are political choices, and unrelated to Automatic Train Control (the signal upgrades to which are you are referring).

Those signal upgrades were only done to Line 1, not to Line 2, 3 or 4. There is also some minor outstanding work on Line 1 for sidings and the like which may or may not have been completed yet.



Lakeshore East is currently the subject of major construction both for the Ontario Line and the LSE Corridor expansion east thereof adding a 4th track, so it's unlikely 15M off-peak will be returning there for awhile.

LSW could see it restored tomorrow if Metrolinx were given the $$ and the political push.(subject to having enough staff) Again a choice largely made at the Ministerial level; though likely recommended by Mx, partially due to lower ridership, but also to deal with staff shortages and construction.

I guess I was implying that it just makes me wonder, why did we invest in Automatic Train Control on Line 1 if the customers aren't even going to see the benefits with higher frequency service? And perhaps we wouldn't be seeing these fare increases now if the money wasn't spent on it.

 

[Voltz]

I guess I was implying that it just makes me wonder, why did we invest in Automatic Train Control on Line 1 if the customers aren't even going to see the benefits with higher frequency service? And perhaps we wouldn't be seeing these fare increases now if the money wasn't spent on it.

The previous signal system was ready to fall apart, was barely hanging on.

 

[Northern Light]

I guess I was implying that it just makes me wonder, why did we invest in Automatic Train Control on Line 1 if the customers aren't even going to see the benefits with higher frequency service? And perhaps we wouldn't be seeing these fare increases now if the money wasn't spent on it.

Passengers will see the benefit. Toronto is growing at ~100,000 per year; and Back to the Office mandates are just now kicking in.

Services will be back to or greater than pre-pandemic levels by sometime next year, if not a bit sooner.

 

[DSC]

I guess I was implying that it just makes me wonder, why did we invest in Automatic Train Control on Line 1 if the customers aren't even going to see the benefits with higher frequency service? And perhaps we wouldn't be seeing these fare increases now if the money wasn't spent on it.

Much of the Line 1 signaling was 50 years old and was becoming VERY expensive and complicate to repair. As with all 'physical plant' one needs to evaluate whether something is worth repairing or whether, in the longer term, it would be cheaper to replace it. There is also often the problem that it is virtually impossible to buy spare parts for old equipment. Of course, one also needs to look at whether a newer technology will actually do MORE than the current: the new signaling on Line 1 was a "YES" from both perspectives.

 

[trtcttc]

I guess I was implying that it just makes me wonder, why did we invest in Automatic Train Control on Line 1 if the customers aren't even going to see the benefits with higher frequency service? And perhaps we wouldn't be seeing these fare increases now if the money wasn't spent on it.

TTC won’t provide a breakdown but ATC was also implemented to save on conductor cost. TTC employees are paid pretty well and halving the labour cost per train results in decent savings over time. They were running service far above demand over COVID/post-COVID which is probably what necessitated the fare increase and service reductions.

I think there isn’t enough focus on operations at the TTC. The raw service levels on the TTC is actually very good, the issue is you’ll frequently see bunching and bad headway management resulting in wait times far above the service standard, then 2 busses/streetcars arrive consecutively. Part of that is just a reality of a surface transit network and partially it is poor operational capabilities. A couple years ago when I regularly took the 504, there’s a TTC supervisor that stands at the corner of King/Dufferin recording when each streetcar passes by in the morning. In an age of live location tracking and multiple cameras throughout the train, it was quite surprising to see such a basic task still being done by pen/paper, which probably limits the amount of analysis/planning they do with that data.

 

[Richard White]

TTC won’t provide a breakdown but ATC was also implemented to save on conductor cost. TTC employees are paid pretty well and halving the labour cost per train results in decent savings over time. They were running service far above demand over COVID/post-COVID which is probably what necessitated the fare increase and service reductions.

I think there isn’t enough focus on operations at the TTC. The raw service levels on the TTC is actually very good, the issue is you’ll frequently see bunching and bad headway management resulting in wait times far above the service standard, then 2 busses/streetcars arrive consecutively. Part of that is just a reality of a surface transit network and partially it is poor operational capabilities. A couple years ago when I regularly took the 504, there’s a TTC supervisor that stands at the corner of King/Dufferin recording when each streetcar passes by in the morning. In an age of live location tracking and multiple cameras throughout the train, it was quite surprising to see such a basic task still being done by pen/paper, which probably limits the amount of analysis/planning they do with that data.

Can we kindly move this to the TTC catch all thread?

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/ttc-other-items-catch-all.20264/page-984

 

[union2pearson]

If anyone cares, Patties Express will be at Union Station shortly, perhaps late April, early May. Fresh Market to open shortly around the same time.

 

[Northern Light]

If anyone cares, Patties Express will be at Union Station shortly, perhaps late April, early May. Fresh Market to open shortly around the same time.

Many of us do indeed care; and thanks for the update!

 

[union2pearson]

Many of us do indeed care; and thanks for the update!

Apologies, didn't mean that in a bad way. I thought it would be insignificant, but glad I could update.

 

[Willybru21]

Apologies, didn't mean that in a bad way. I thought it would be insignificant, but glad I could update.

Retail is always big news here!

 

[evandyk]

And in the immediate term, if you need a quick patty fix, they are open in a few places in the Path.

 

[mike0001]

Just crossed over the bridge from CIBC to Union Station and it was packed! The new options at Union are definitely drawing people and this will only increase when the second tower is done. Btw the Arabica coffee place is still not open. What gives?

They just posted this job listing so perhaps it'll be in the next month or two?

https://ca.indeed.com/viewjob?cmp=Accencis-Group&t=Barista&jk=eff630a85d05d331

 

[union2pearson]

Look for Adaria Micromarket concept to begin construction shortly in the bus terminal on the upper level.

 

[Northern Light]

Look for Adaria Micromarket concept to begin construction shortly in the bus terminal on the upper level.

For those not in the know, this is an un-staffed retail concept. Sometimes vending-machine forward, sometimes not.

From: https://adaria.ca/services/micromarkets/market-designs