Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

AlvinofDiaspar said:
Public contracts should go to reasonable bidders with a good track record of completing projects on time and on budget (even if it is not the lowest initial bid). This is especially true for projects with a high level of criticality. The current system is clearly not working very well - and banning Carillion or Bondfeld post hoc is borderline meaningless - hell, the city even awarded the later the StL North Market project even with the Union Station drama ongoing - and wasted a year and counting on that nonsense.

AoD
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I agree with this. I think there should also be some way of verifying the bid, as in "is it possible to do this job, safely, for this money, and in this timeline?". Do bids get audited? Track record is one thing, but there should be some independent way of checking that the bid is even possible.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Public contracts should go to reasonable bidders with a good track record of completing projects on time and on budget (even if it is not the lowest initial bid). This is especially true for projects with a high level of criticality. The current system is clearly not working very well - and banning Carillion or Bondfeld post hoc is borderline meaningless - hell, the city even awarded the latter the StL North Market project even with the Union Station drama ongoing - and wasted a year and counting on that nonsense.

AoD
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DSC said:
I am unclear at what surprises you. Do you think public contracts should go to the highest bidder or ????
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There are several varying methods of awarding public tenders.

Many are discussed at this link.

www.lavery.ca

The public tendering process: are there alternatives to the lowest bidder rule?

The public tendering process: are there alternatives to the lowest bidder rule? - Take a look at Lavery's latest legal publication.
www.lavery.ca www.lavery.ca

“Minimum quality and price”
"Lowest adjusted price"
“Quality only”
Bid weighting system
 
BjamesT said:
I agree with this. I think there should also be some way of verifying the bid, as in "is it possible to do this job, safely, for this money, and in this timeline?". Do bids get audited? Track record is one thing, but there should be some independent way of checking that the bid is even possible.
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Most tenders require the bidder to have completed work of similar scale, and they get eliminated when they haven't done so. Union wasn't Bondfields first large project; it's not even their first Toronto train station project as they built several TTC stations (2 on Spadina extension and 1 on Sheppard IIRC).

That said, the large majority of all high-value construction work is government work. If government wont take a risk on the new company then there only be a single company bidding on large government projects (after mergers and acquisitions) which pushes the price up considerably.
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
Public contracts should go to reasonable bidders with a good track record of completing projects on time and on budget (even if it is not the lowest initial bid). This is especially true for projects with a high level of criticality. The current system is clearly not working very well - and banning Carillion or Bondfeld post hoc is borderline meaningless - hell, the city even awarded the latter the StL North Market project even with the Union Station drama ongoing - and wasted a year and counting on that nonsense.

AoD
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I agree with you a lot, and in my opinion it's important that stuff done on time. Chores, shopping, eg. But if there's one thing that the City needs to understand is, if the bidding process works in a way where companies doing projects behind schedule all the time are allowed to keep at, again and again and again and again, and again. Then the project will be behind schedule and the companies involved will keep at there tricks.
 
The issue is that the moment that you introduce too much discretion into the contract award process, it opens up the potential for shady dealings (giving the contract to your brother's company, etc), or even just the appearance of shady dealings. Suppose there is discretion involved, and one of the losing bidders finds out that the procurement manager's son-in-law has a financial stake in the company that wins the bid. Can you say "lawsuit"? Even the allegation of impropriety can ruin someone in that type of position.

Lowest bidder may attract the "you get what you pay for" contractors, but it's significantly harder to game the system to get contracts awarded to 'favourable parties'. That's the theory anyway.
 
gweed123 said:
The issue is that the moment that you introduce too much discretion into the contract award process, it opens up the potential for shady dealings (giving the contract to your brother's company, etc), or even just the appearance of shady dealings. Suppose there is discretion involved, and one of the losing bidders finds out that the procurement manager's son-in-law has a financial stake in the company that wins the bid. Can you say "lawsuit"? Even the allegation of impropriety can ruin someone in that type of position.

Lowest bidder may attract the "you get what you pay for" contractors, but it's significantly harder to game the system to get contracts awarded to 'favourable parties'. That's the theory anyway.
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I think getting KPMG or Deloitte involved in the bids could address most of that. But maybe not.
 
What's not being reported is that this is all part of Putin's "Hack the West" progrom, and many cities had 'hardened' their defences with actual oversight and countermoves, but Toronto was distracted trying to make the King Pilot Project work with wishful thinking and ice sculpture concepts.

In the case of Onion Station, Putin's Partisans and Peons scored a direct hit with their evil Kaos Weapon and Toronto was rendered helpless and confused...more so than usual.

Of course, it helped the Progrom immensely that so many operatives were inside QP and City Hall as 'representatives of the people'...and silly Kanuck people didn't blink a balalaika when our man "Fordski" won with the 'Government of the People.'

Next hack: The Hockey Hall of Pain.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
From the Star:

www.thestar.com

Edward Keenan: The seemingly endless Union Station reno has frustrated an entire city

The City of Toronto says the Union Station construction project will finally end this year. By now, you could be forgiven for taking the new estimate with a grain of salt, writes Edward Keenan.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com

AoD
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I share his frustration. Like I previously said, construction wont end here till 2021 and with another 2 years before the amenities and retail and restaurants open. The More I read articles like this the more confident I am in my projected timeline.

But lets not forget there are additional construction projects lined up for Union Station once the rehabilitation project ends.

Those are:
1 - The Platform Widening Project and removal of certain tracks
2 - Installation of the overhead walkways linking CIBC Square Complex with Union Station and Scotiabank Arena
3 - Possible rehabilitation of the Bay Teamway and Bay Street Underpass
4 - Construction of Union Centre Skyscraper and incorporating it into Union Station
5 - New Platforms for Streetcars at Union Station

Good news is none of these projects will cause the kind of disrutptions that the Rehabilitation caused but the bad news is construction at Union Station will not for years to come.
 
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Mercenary said:
I share his frustration. Like I previously said, construction wont end here till 2021 and with another 2 years before the amenities and retail and restaurants open. The More I read articles like this the more confident I am in my projected timeline.

But lets not forget there are additional construction projects lined up for Union Station once the rehabilitation project ends.

Those are:
1 - The Platform Widening Project and removal of certain tracks
2 - Installation of the overhead walkways linking CIBC Square Complex with Union Station and Scotiabank Arena
3 - Possible rehabilitation of the Bay Teamway and Bay Street Underpass
4 - Construction of Union Centre Skyscraper and incorporating it into Union Station
5 - New Platforms for Streetcars at Union Station

Good news is none of these projects will cause the kind of disrutptions that the Rehabilitation caused but the bad news is construction at Union Station will not for years to come.
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Don't forget, there is also the as yet officially announced track closure/platform doubling work as well - those will by default wreck havoc to the concourses below.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Don't forget, there is also the as yet officially announced track closure/platform doubling work as well - those will by default wreck havoc to the concourses below.

AoD
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Yes. I was referring to that on my 1st point.

Btw, have they resolved the height issue on the electrification of the Trains? I knew there was an issue in terms of the height of train-shed which is protected as a heritage artifact and thus they either had to lower the tracks or jack up the train-shed to create enough space to install the electrification wiring and equipment.

Because that could be another construction project that will start once the rehabilitation on Bay Concourse ends.
 
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