Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

[BurlOak]

I honestly think having more rows of graphics and words will be much better. In other words, I like hamburger style signs is better than hot dog style signs.

I'm the opposite. It is really worth making all hallways and extra metre higher just for the sign. Or are you expecting that anyone over 5'6" just has to watch their heads.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I'm the opposite. It is really worth making all hallways and extra metre higher just for the sign. Or are you expecting that anyone over 5'6" just has to watch their heads.

There’s like 1 foot of wasted space used for hanging the signs. Use that space to make the signs taller.

 

[raptor]

?
I find some of Picasso's work intriguing, but when I need to take in a whizz in the worst of ways, I couldn't give a toss. Put an arrow showing where the washrooms are. Those melting clocks recurring in Picasso's work? That's what's about to run down my leg.

How difficult can it be to put up signs that show...wait for it, where stuff is? And for Gawdsakes Metrolinx...what the fug were you thinking hosting people from all over the world with the term "UP" on elevators, escalators and multi-level stations? Ask someone whose first language isn't English as to what it stands for...Maybe it's a bird, a plane, able to jump tall buildings in a single bound? Stupidman!

Perhaps hand out 'legend' cards for the Great Unwashed so they too can play the game: "Guess what the fug this means?" Maybe little 'translation stalks' beside the signs to explain in three hundred and one languages (including Bafflegab, both Upper and Lower) what the pictorials mean. If I were a foreign visitor, or a Martian for that matter, or just visiting from Moosonee, I could maybe guess half of what's indicated there, and half of that again as to which direction.

If I went to New York, London or Paris, and saw signs like that, I'd be truly pizzed off. Most Torontonians interviewed in the CityTV piece couldn't get them right. Onion Station, peel it and cry.

For the record, I was talking about the new PATH wayfinding (the subject of Hume's article), rather than the signs at Union, which are appalling. I cannot believe they still haven't corrected the sign leading to the food court that says "Air Canada Centre | TTC" (one of them does not exist, the other cannot be accessed from the food court at present)

 

[steveintoronto]

^ The TorStar Hume's piece poll result as of today:

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...th-signs-need-less-design-more-direction.html

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Look at how other countries do signage - they are wasting space with logos that no one recognizes. I wonder how many focus group they ran to come up with this thing.

AoD

 

[DSC]

For the record, I was talking about the new PATH wayfinding (the subject of Hume's article), rather than the signs at Union, which are appalling. I cannot believe they still haven't corrected the sign leading to the food court that says "Air Canada Centre | TTC" (one of them does not exist, the other cannot be accessed from the food court at present)

I thought the ACC signage had gone. I certainly saw someone removing one of them before the area opened. Are there more left?

 

[raptor]

I thought the ACC signage had gone. I certainly saw someone removing one of them before the area opened. Are there more left?

Yes, in front of customer service at the south end of York concourse, leading downstairs to the food court.

 

[Full Metal Junkie]

I was talking about the new PATH wayfinding (the subject of Hume's article)

Can't please everyone I guess.

You certainly can't please Christopher Hume as of late. I worry for the old man. He has become unhealthily jaded. Either that, or maybe he is getting cash bonuses for every perfectly good thing he verbally craps all over (allegedly).

Those melting clocks recurring in Picasso's work?

The melting clock is a recurring theme in Salvador Dali's works.

source

Pablo Picasso is mostly known for his cubism.

source

I mean, if you are going to go on an angry rant about the finer points of how Union Station is ruining everyone's life, at least get your painters straight.

 

[steveintoronto]

Look at how other countries do signage - they are wasting space with logos that no one recognizes. I wonder how many focus group they ran to come up with this thing.
AoD

The other three guys in the lunch room were focused. What more do you need?

My favourite comparison on these situations is Computereze vs. The Real World. If car controls were labelled the way computer functions are, (and the spawn of that mentality is behind these signs) then there would be a hell of a lot more pedestrians in this world.

For the record, my years of product design, though I'm a techie, involved user interface controls. Real old-fashioned like. Vernier dials and numbers, although some did "go up to eleven for that little bit extra". And they were labelled in such a way that one knew exactly the purpose and increment needed. But alas...

That was also the day when people could read maps...and schematics...

 

[steveintoronto]

You certainly can't please Christopher Hume as of late. I worry for the old man. He has become unhealthily jaded. Either that, or maybe he is getting cash bonuses for every perfectly good thing he verbally craps all over (allegedly).


The melting clock is a recurring theme in Salvador Dali's works.
View attachment 171805
source

Pablo Picasso is mostly known for his cubism.
View attachment 171807
source

I mean, if you are going to go on an angry rant about the finer points of how Union Station is ruining everyone's life, at least get your painters straight.

My mistake. Well Hello Dali. It's been a while. And all of those who voted how they did as to how meaningless and confusing the signs are must be mistaken too. Why can't they all be art aficionados? Looks like Hume got it right, and you got it wrong on the confusion. For some odd reason, the vast majority aren't art critics, but just poor slobs needing directions. Fancy that...

Ever been to see Billy? (sic) Btw: Hume is still highly respected in media and architectural circles. Just not by everyone it seems. Odd that...

Either that, or maybe he is getting cash bonuses for every perfectly good thing he verbally craps all over (allegedly).

? Speaking of dangling gerunds and melting clocks..."allegedly" what? 'bonuses', 'crap', 'maybe', 'verbally' 'that'...and almost every other word in that sentence.

Was it you who designed that mess by some chance?

Some more discussion on the matter:

https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/9shvek

 

[Admiral Beez]

^ The TorStar Hume's piece poll result as of today:
View attachment 171802
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...th-signs-need-less-design-more-direction.html

What the Path needs is location finding via Google Maps without a GPS signal. No, not some Path App that you only realize you need to download once you're already lost.

And having static maps online doesn't help https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/07/you-can-finally-navigate-path-your-phone/ I need to know where I am in real time, what direction I am facing.

 

[Full Metal Junkie]

And all of those who voted how they did as to how meaningless and confusing the signs are

Just to be clear, the question was: Do you find the PATH difficult to navigate?
Neither the question nor the answer options even mentioned the signage. There is a whole host of reason's why people might find the PATH difficult to navigate. Considering how geographically challenged people have become in the world of GPS navigators, I'd say poor signage is the least of worries here. But sure, you go ahead and parade those meaningless results of that out-of-context question in support of your subjective opinion.

 

[steveintoronto]

But sure, you go ahead and parade those meaningless results of that out-of-context question in support of your subjective opinion.

lol...Must be the Cubist Revolution at the Bay Street of Pigs beach...You sound like Entro's spokeperson.
UNION STATION REDEVELOPMENT | Entro Communications

Union Station and PATH signs need less design, more direction
By CHRISTOPHER HUMEStar Columnist
Mon., Jan. 21, 2019

As long as you know how to get where you’re going, the signage at Union Station works well. If you don’t, better ask someone in a uniform.
Same thing with Toronto’s Underground City; it can leave even the most regular users confused and confounded. Signage throughout the 30-kilometre PATH system seems more intent on making a design statement than showing the way from A to B.

Signage inside Union Station has either proliferated to the point where it’s a blur, or is so hard to find it’s virtually invisible, writes Christopher Hume. (ANDREW FRANCIS WALLACE / TORONTO STAR)
[...]

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...th-signs-need-less-design-more-direction.html

You can't navigate a webpage, and yet defend the signs? It's a sign of the times I guess...

I need to know where I am in real time, what direction I am facing.

Absolutely. This is one of the reasons I and many others avoid the PATH system (and find Union so disorienting) is that a map is only as good as your sense of positioning relative to it.

With Siri and Alexa, such trivial details as your sense of position becomes meaningless, which I guess is why so many 'smart' phone users walk around glued to their masters. It tells them where to go.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Just to be clear, the question was: Do you find the PATH difficult to navigate?
Neither the question nor the answer options even mentioned the signage. There is a whole host of reason's why people might find the PATH difficult to navigate. Considering how geographically challenged people have become in the world of GPS navigators, I'd say poor signage is the least of worries here. But sure, you go ahead and parade those meaningless results of that out-of-context question in support of your subjective opinion.

Navigating PATH has been a headache even before the Smartphone era. It's not only signage - but the PATH environment lacks directionality and cues that would allow an individual to situate themselves relative to the normal city.

AoD

 

[steveintoronto]

Yikes:

[...]
With four different urban transportation systems as well as shopping and other amenities converging within a complex and transitioning building, and several major attractions in the immediate vicinity, the challenge was to organize a broad range of information on the signage in a way that would be logical and consistent.

Entro’s solution was to group the information directionally, separate the groups with spacers, and locate directional arrows at the ends of the signs. Blank spacers between the groupings make the signs clear and give the viewer a visual respite. The result is a cohesive wayfinding system that addresses a complex set of stakeholder needs, while also helping users to navigate between transit services, amenities, and nearby attractions.

The aesthetic of the signage pays homage to Union Station’s Beaux Arts architecture. A contemporary interpretation of the columns, capitals and entablature, it features modern pylon forms and signage frames, with an interplay of bronze and zinc finishes for historic versus modern areas of the complex. [...]

http://entro.com/project/unionstation/

'The frivolity of the extended height of meaning is juxtaposed upon the dexterous wonderment of the difference between the product wherever it is directed by the arrow of reference.'

The source of the problem is apparent...