Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[steveintoronto]

The engines used on the UPX equipment are used on over 2000 self-propelled cars around the world, and variations of the transmissions are used on another several thousand.



The cold was not the problem this week, at least not with regards to the rolling stock.

There were issues with the signalling systems and track in the cold, but that would then affect any other type of rolling stock as well.

Dan

I already answered this, and posted EMUs with linked reference working north of the Arctic Circle in Sweden and Norway. Ski Country, granular snow. OK, how's that "granular snow" excuse coming along? Are we just supposed to accept that and eat our pudding pie?

Are you sticking with "granular snow getting into seals"? Because it's a sad joke if correct. And yes, the ZF econo xmssn is used in buses in far lower temps than this, and the Cummins QSK19-R is the most used DMU/DEMU prime in the rail world. And I'm not aware of any other users having "granular snow" as an excuse for hobbling the vehicle it performs in. (Early models of Eurostar had a problem, but it was melting snow on the motors being sucked in the intake. It was dealt with)(Euros are completely electric)

So wazzup? Over to you...

 

[steveintoronto]

Cold is not the problem, and never has been. The way the snow has turned to ice, granulated and gets whipped around by passing trains is.

Dan

My reply @:
#9,507

So since you seem to diss anyone else's absolutely valid questions on this, how about you offer an explanation? Your story has changed. And again, not a word from Metrolinx on it. There never is! It has to come from Sonoma (SMART) Like the fires, the thrown pistons and the Cummins recall on crankshaft replacements. I still have suspicions on the Cardan Shafts, as discussed in detail in my prior posts on the last page, this string.

Here's what happens elsewhere, actual explanations and accounting are in order:

Eurostar facing criticism in Christmas shutdown report
Investigation into tunnel chaos expected to censure company for failing to protect engines from winter weather
Peter Walker and Lizzy Davies UK Guardian
Thu 11 Feb 2010 17.39 GMT
[...]
The report published tomorrow will point to inadequate filters, which allowed snow to get through ventilation grilles and short-circuit electrical systems, as the main cause of the breakdown of five passenger trains in the tunnel on 18 December. About 2,400 people were trapped for up to 16 hours, many complaining subsequently that they had no proper access to food, water or toilet facilities.

All Eurostar services were cancelled for several days, bringing pandemonium to stations as passengers, unable to take fully-booked flights and ferries, struggled to get home for Christmas.

At the time, Eurostar said the problem was caused by particularly fine snow particles and could not have been anticipated. The company also blamed Eurotunnel, which operates the Channel tunnel, for delays in rescuing passengers and hinted at possible legal action. Tomorrow's report is likely to largely vindicate Eurotunnel, which pointedly stressed in December that its own very similar locomotives, used to pull the car and lorry shuttles it operates, had not suffered the same problem.

According to newspaper reports in France, the investigation by Christopher Garnett, formerly in charge of the GNER rail franchise and Claude Gressier, a senior French rail engineer, will recommend urgent action, including improvements to cold-weather protection on Eurostar trains.
[...]
Earlier this week, Eurostar denied a report by the specialist magazine Ville, Rail and Transports which alleged that seasonal "winterisation" procedures had not been carried out. "We protected the carriages from October, as in every other year," said a Eurostar spokesperson. "But the quality of the snow in December was such that the protection of our electrical material proved insufficient." While refusing further comment ahead of the review's release, the company said it had already made changes to its services to better cope with "exceptional weather".
[...]
By way of an apology, the company said it was expecting to pay up to £10m in compensation to passengers whose travel plans were wrecked. In a message to customers, the company's chief executive, Richard Brown, admitted it had not delivered "the standard of service you expect".
[...]

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2010/feb/11/eurostar-freeze-tunnel-cold-christmas

Meantime, the type of explanations from Metrolinx:
[...the sound of snowflakes falling...]

 

[muller877]

The engines used on the UPX equipment are used on over 2000 self-propelled cars around the world, and variations of the transmissions are used on another several thousand.

The cold was not the problem this week, at least not with regards to the rolling stock.

There were issues with the signalling systems and track in the cold, but that would then affect any other type of rolling stock as well.

Dan

Good to know. I recall in the UK they had actual rolling stock issues with ice in the past. The ice created sparks on the 3rd track which then caused smoke/fires in the soundproofing batting on the underside of train bodies.

GO has lots of blowers on various switches. Are all switches on the high-frequency lines (Lakeshore & UPX) equipped with blowers? Or should this be another unforeseen expense needed when/if they roll out higher frequencies on the various lines?

 

[jcam]

From the trains that did operate intermittently that I managed to get on for my commute, the problem seemed to be the lower corners of the door tracks icing up. They were trying to unjam them at the station.

 

[steveintoronto]

I suspect it was a lot more than just that, but that alone is highly indicative of the units not being winter tested. The immediate preventative measure is to heat the door tracks. A low voltage thermal strip would be used without second thought save for draining the melted water on any properly engineered unit.. This is so incredibly simple...sub class 101 engineering.

 

[nfitz]

It's simple in theory, but as we haven't had sustained temperatures that cold for a few years, I suspect the best engineering discovers issues. I was shocked to see that my dishwasher drain froze ... lived there for 12 years, and never had that issue before. Floor didn't even seem cold (it was coiled under and behind the unit). My wife's watch failed completely - doesn't even keep proper time with a new battery! She's had it for years ...

 

[steveintoronto]

It's simple in theory, but as we haven't had sustained temperatures that cold for a few years,

As I said. Not winter tested. Pueblo barely gets below freezing...
Transportation Technology Center Inc. (TTCI) - Railway Research

The diesel multiple unit trainsets were ordered from Sumitomo Corporation of America / Nippon Sharyo at a cost of $46.7 million, or $6.67 million for each two car set. They were delivered to Rochelle, Illinois for assembling, and then sent to the Transportation Technology Center, Inc. in Pueblo, CO for testing. [...]

http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Sonoma–Marin_Area_Rail_Transit

https://www.google.ca/search?q=pueb...04j0j7&client=ubuntu&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[lenaitch]

I wonder what "testing" gets done there. Obviously, cold weather testing, even if they don't get deep cold, would be restricted to the winter months. Do they simulate swirling snow, snow and slush dragged in on boots, etc. A DIY/homeowner site I visit has contributors from all over North America who are raising cold-related problems they have never encountered before and, if you read some weather models, deep cold polar vortex cycles may become more common. Maybe Metrolinx should run them back and forth between Cochrane and Moosonee in February a few times.

 

[Streety McCarface]

As in very low ridership? The daily UP ridership at Pearson is even lower than the infamous Bessarion station looking at the recently released 2018 ridership numbers for GO/UP and TTC!

Source? Especially for TTC ridership numbers.

If I remember correctly, Metrolinx quoted that like 50-70% of the 10,000 daily UPX trips originated or terminated at Pearson. Since trips don't include exit counts (they take the sum of all station counts and divide by 2), it's safe to assume that between 10,000 and 14,000 passengers travel through that station every day. Even then, I'm not going to fault Bessarion that much since operating costs are probably higher on the UPX (2 train engineers, 2-3 station staff, 1-2 conductors, use of diesel fuel, no regenerative braking, further distances, etc) than that section of the Sheppard line (1 train operator, 1-2 station operators). I'd need more data (and time) to really go in depth and look at numbers, but the UPX is a premium service and its ridership is still quite impressive.

Bessarion sees, what, 10-12 four-car trains per hour in each direction? Pearson sees 4 two-car or three-car trains per hour. Even the fare difference aside, I don't think you can fairly compare the raw ridership numbers to define success.

Run 10 trains per hour at a $3 fare with free transfers onto the TTC and I suspect those numbers would balloon pretty quickly.

I beg to differ. While cost is certainly a driving factor, it's logistic, and metrolinx has priced it at an optimum level that will generate the largest revenues. Frequencies, again are logistic, but it's even more likely that any higher frequency really won't make a huge difference for airport travelers. What would significantly increase ridership is the addition of another station, and more importantly, earlier service. The US bank of flights leaves between 6 and 7:30, so getting to the airport at 5:30 is not an option.

 

[nfitz]

As I said. Not winter tested. Pueblo barely gets below freezing...

Likely so - though you could dig a LONG way into the various documents about both the TTC and Metrolinx Bombardier vehicles and never find a reference that they were sent for cold-weather testing to a facility in Ottawa!

 

[nfitz]

Source? Especially for TTC ridership numbers.

TTC figures, including for 2018, are posted on the TTC website. In particular Bessarion is 2,990 a day for 2018 (up from 2,880 a day in 2016). Standard rule of thumb for an approximate annual equivalent is to multiply by 300 to get about 900,000. Which seems to slightly more than the recent Metrolinx dump ... though perhaps not, if it's really only 270 days of data ... it wasn't quite clear what it was in that turd of a figure!

Of course, the TTC numbers are equally suspicious ... particularly the numbers showing ridership for Sheppard West station (formerly Downsview station) went up in 2018 after the subway extension opened, compared to 2016. This defies belief!

 

[Streety McCarface]

TTC figures, including for 2018, are posted on the TTC website. In particular Bessarion is 2,990 a day for 2018 (up from 2,880 a day in 2016). Standard rule of thumb for an approximate annual equivalent is to multiply by 300 to get about 900,000. Which seems to slightly more than the recent Metrolinx dump ... though perhaps not, if it's really only 270 days of data ... it wasn't quite clear what it was in that turd of a figure!

Of course, the TTC numbers are equally suspicious ... particularly the numbers showing ridership for Sheppard West station (formerly Downsview station) went up in 2018 after the subway extension opened, compared to 2016. This defies belief!

Why did they skip 2017?

Also, I'm having a hard time believing Leslie ridership shrunk with all the Concord Park Place developments that have sprung up. I presume they took surveys different days and didn't account for differences in ridership. Nevertheless, this is extremely exciting stuff and it looks like I'll be up for a while updating spreadsheets. Please share this with the statistics chat.

EDIT: As I'm going through the numbers, a few stations (notably bloor Yonge) have exactly the same counts as previous years. This is either a huge coincidence, or the TTC has just not done full ridership counts at all stations, which is extremely concerning.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

TTC figures, including for 2018, are posted on the TTC website. In particular Bessarion is 2,990 a day for 2018 (up from 2,880 a day in 2016). Standard rule of thumb for an approximate annual equivalent is to multiply by 300 to get about 900,000. Which seems to slightly more than the recent Metrolinx dump ... though perhaps not, if it's really only 270 days of data ... it wasn't quite clear what it was in that turd of a figure!

Of course, the TTC numbers are equally suspicious ... particularly the numbers showing ridership for Sheppard West station (formerly Downsview station) went up in 2018 after the subway extension opened, compared to 2016. This defies belief!

Bessarion is up because of the MEC that opened in 2016, as for Sheppard West (Downsview), that one is interesting. I wonder if the same thing happened to Wilson when Line 1 was extended to Downsview in 1996.

 

[steveintoronto]

Maybe Metrolinx should run them back and forth between Cochrane and Moosonee in February a few times.

There are test centres out West. And this:

NRC's climatic testing facility provides a single location to test vehicle, rail car and component performance under an exceptionally wide range of conditions. Whether your application is climatic evaluation of the HVAC system in full-size rail cars, the testing of a new de-icing agent, a torture test for new systems in a military vehicle – or so much more, our facility will get you there faster and with certainty.

https://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/solutions/facilities/environment_chamber.html

There's more, I'll detail later. Sweden and Norway run EMUs across their shared border *north of the arctic circle*! And have done for years.

lol...some day, we might find ways of doing this...

https://www.scandinavianrail.com/scenicrail/sweden/arctic-circle-train

Travel by rail around Sweden, face glued to the window, on some of Europe’s most spectacular rail journeys. You can do it on a first class ticket, or on a second-class ticket on most trains. But there is nothing second-class about the scenery though – on most routes the natural surroundings are off-the-scale seeworthy: how about speeding across the Arctic tundra under the midnight sun, or stopping off for nature walks and berry-picking on the Inlandsbana service? Couchettes in second-class are available on many routes, for instance legendary bucket-list favourite the Stockholm-Kiruna-Narvik (Norway) line.

https://rivensflowsinbeauty.com/sweden-by-rail/

 

[nfitz]

Bessarion is up because of the MEC that opened in 2016, as for Sheppard West (Downsview), that one is interesting.

Then why it still below the 3,050 reported for 2015? The change is so small though, I can't imagine it's statistically significant.

I wonder if the same thing happened to Wilson when Line 1 was extended to Downsview in 1996.

I can't imagine for a minute that Sheppard West ridership really increased by almost a thousand riders from 40,640 to 41,600 at the former terminus when they extended the line. With 20,000 alone riding the 196 York University Rocket that suggests that the remaining ridership doubled! It's quite clear that someone inserted 2017 pre-extension numbers into that 2018 table!