Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[1overcosc]

Those cities all have feeder flights or airport bus services into Pearson. They won't be going into downtown Toronto to take the UPE.

You're definitely wrong on that. As an Kingstonian I can say that many people here take VIA to Toronto then UP to Pearson. More people do that than fly out of Kingston airport. I myself am doing that this Saturday for my trip down south. That's what sunseekers in Kingston do.

Feeder flights are barely used. With the exception of Ottawa, flying into Pearson from the smaller cities is not a fun time. The flights are infrequent and expensive. Booking a flight from Kingston-Toronto-Destination is typically hundreds of dollars more than just flying out of Toronto to start. Only 25% of air passengers originating from the Kingston region use Kingston airport for this reason. At least half just go to Pearson. And VIA->UP is by far the most popular way to get there. The airport bus has seen its ridership fall almost in half since UP opened; last year Coach Canada had to add a stop at Yorkdale and cut the buses from full size coaches to minibuses to keep the route viable.

One of our city councillors has actually used the existence of UPE as an argument in favour of closing down the airport and selling off the property.

UP has definitely taken cars off the road from Kingston actually. A lot of the people who now do VIA->UP used to drive and park at Pearson.

 

[nfitz]

You're definitely wrong on that. As an Kingstonian I can say that many people here take VIA to Toronto then UP to Pearson. More people do that than fly out of Kingston airport. I myself am doing that this Saturday for my trip down south. That's what sunseekers in Kingston do.

I lived in Kingston for years, flying on international flights out of Dorval (until flights were transferred to Mirabel) and later Malton. It was always train or car to the airport - I've never flown out of Kingston. The UP would have been a no-brainer back then - compared to the @#*% Airport bus - or worse a taxi if you were desperate to catch the next train, rather than having a long wait.

Looking at the current itinerary - the maximum capacity is a mere 72 people per weekday from Kingston to Toronto (with only 4 flights - 18 people per flight).

Compare to 15 trains a weekday from Kingston to Toronto.

One of our city councillors has actually used the existence of UPE as an argument in favour of closing down the airport and selling off the property.

Good grief, Norman Rogers would be turning over in his grave.

Haven't been there in 30 years or so - looks like the airport is growing. I guess the days of walking around the runway-side of the terminal to enter are gone - never used to be a fence!

 

[TOareaFan]

Kingston does seem to benefit more from UP than cities like London or KW. For one thing it has far more VIA Trains so is way more schedule friendly.......also the connection to UP is taking another train in the same general direction as opposed to taking a Via that runs near but past your ultimate destination only to double back on another train that covers essentially the same 25 minute journey in the opposite direction in the same rail corridor.

 

[mdrejhon]

Interesting on Kingston using UPX!

VIA books UPX, and I noticed it is easy to book this combined trip all at once on viarail.ca just by booking a Kingston-Pearson itinerary. The trip times seem to be comparable to taking a car, but without the pain, time and cost of parking. So ends up being faster than a car when you factor in the airport parking shuttle pain.

I wonder how future VIA rail speedups will affect UPXs' viability...
...And what if one of the UPX stops north of Union is made VIA compatible?

Regardless, when electrification comes and UPX rail vehicles are replaced, I now think UPX should be rolled into a unified GORER+SmartTrack+UPX ala Paris RER B (considered one service but with multiple stopping plans built into its schedule).

 

[drum118]

Was talking to someone who along with 8 others were taken on a tour of UPX by them to the point they triple the ridership on the train last week. These are Transit officials and left them shaking their heads.

 

[nfitz]

VIA books UPX, and I noticed it is easy to book this combined trip all at once on viarail.ca just by booking a Kingston-Pearson itinerary. The trip times seem to be comparable to taking a car, but without the pain, time and cost of parking. So ends up being faster than a car when you factor in the airport parking shuttle pain.

Yes, but if you book it with VIA, you pay the entire $27.50. I'd think it should be discounted a lot closer to $19 if combined with a VIA ticket.

I also think that those connecting to GO should have some kind of discount as well (though hopefully most are paying the $19 already given Presto penetration among GO ridership).

 

[ottbike]

I also think that those connecting to GO should have some kind of discount as well (though hopefully most are paying the $19 already given Presto penetration among GO ridership).

Or maybe absorb the $2.90 TTC fare within the $19. That would definitely be an incentive for me to use it, as it would reduce the "well I already paid the TTC fare, so might as well take the airport rocket" mindset.

 

[Megaton327]

Or maybe absorb the $2.90 TTC fare within the $19. That would definitely be an incentive for me to use it, as it would reduce the "well I already paid the TTC fare, so might as well take the airport rocket" mindset.

Agreed, I'm largely against the fare going down at all, but I would very much support them absorbing a TTC transfer in the $19. Similarly, with a GO transfer, taking off say the GO base fare of ~$5.

 

[ottbike]

Agreed, I'm largely against the fare going down at all, but I would very much support them absorbing a TTC transfer in the $19. Similarly, with a GO transfer, taking off say the GO base fare of ~$5.

Those simple changes would be a good start, and I think they would be a fairly reasonable ask.

 

[andrewpmk]

Just a crazy idea I just had, I don't know if it's feasible:

Shut down the UP Express and reuse the elevated spur for an extension of the Finch West LRT. The idea is, LRT can run along tighter curves than GO trains and the platform at Pearson doesn't need to be as long. This way, the LRT would be extended down Highway 27 to Humber College to south of Woodbine Racetrack where a transfer station to GO would be built and then it would reuse the UP Express spur to Pearson.

 

[ndawgg]

As someone who grew up in Kingston I can also verify that we don't fly out of the Kingston airport. However, I also don't agree that everyone takes Via and UPX to the airport now. They still drive. My mom and her friends just went on vacation and they carpooled to the airport. Cheaper than them all paying for trains and UPX tickets.

 

[LNahid2000]

As someone who grew up in Kingston I can also verify that we don't fly out of the Kingston airport. However, I also don't agree that everyone takes Via and UPX to the airport now. They still drive. My mom and her friends just went on vacation and they carpooled to the airport. Cheaper than them all paying for trains and UPX tickets.

For American flights, you'd probably save more money (and time) just driving to Syracuse vs. driving to Toronto. I wouldn't even think about taking the train.

 

[vic]

The Kiss'n'ride and pedestrian connection to Dundas St. was open today. I wandered through on my way home.

Crappy cellphone pics....

 

[1overcosc]

As someone who grew up in Kingston I can also verify that we don't fly out of the Kingston airport. However, I also don't agree that everyone takes Via and UPX to the airport now. They still drive. My mom and her friends just went on vacation and they carpooled to the airport. Cheaper than them all paying for trains and UPX tickets.

A lot of people still drive of course. I'd say it's about half-half VIA-UPX and driving split judging from what I see around me.

For American flights, you'd probably save more money (and time) just driving to Syracuse vs. driving to Toronto. I wouldn't even think about taking the train.

Syracuse is a surprisingly unpopular option. Now with the dollar of course it makes little sense but even when the dollar was strong, not many went to Syracuse. The studies on our airport indicates that around 25% of air traffic originating from the city flew out of Kingston; about 40% out of Pearson; and the remaining 35% was more or less evenly distributed between Dorval, Ottawa, and Syracuse.

 

[Palma]

Where do you want them to advertise the prices?
With a couple of clicks, I found the fares information here: https://www.upexpress.com/Tickets/Tickets

what I meant was I am always hearing $27.00 and so just never bothered to check and i think many people hear $27.00 and thats it. And besides a taxi was right there at airport, it was 8pm and convenient. We still would not have taken the UPX to save $2.00