Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[DirectionNorth]

Re: the skip stop drama (it’s on Wednesday, what will we use for drama until the weekend?)

While UTers have generally dismissed Weston as a place that UPX should not stop, I think we need to refocus a little. The Lawrence-Weston precinct is seeing enormous intensification, directly linked to its GO station. It's actually one of the most successful TOD initiatives in the city (unlike Woodbine or Mimico, where developers have reneged on work around GO stations). Pretty soon, Lawrence-Weston is going to look a lot like Liberty Village in density. (How ironic that Westoners won the battle of Dalton's Dirty Diesels only to see their largely sfd village wiped out by new condos)

At some point in the not too distant future, GO RER will arrive at Weston Station. If we’re relying on our small airport trains to provide intracity transit, that’s good airport transit, but something’s gone wrong in the planning process.

I am quite confident that ML vetted this change with QP, as all their changes are.... but I wonder if anyone asked how many riders would be affected. ML has reams of ridership data (which they won't share publicly, some of it is actually shielded by NDa's) and I would bet a box of donuts that it shows an upward trend in ridership both generally and between Weston and Pearson.

The Minister’s office probably signed off without looking at the details. And sometimes, things blow up unexpectedly.

If they did notice this change, they didn’t anticipate this level of controversy.

The challenge I would put to ML is - why not just add Bramalea service all the way to 15 minutes and then revert UPX to an added fare (not the business class fare they started with, just enough of a premium to disincent its use by commuters). There are likely two big obstacles to this....the inability to finish the fourth track, and crewing.....and that is a snapshot of where ML is failing overall - but it's the obvious goal to accelerate towards.

Metrolinx failure seems to be a common concern phrase these days …

Perhaps the solution is to implement tap-off and up (geddit?) fares for non-Pearson trips. Not sure of its technical feasibility.

 

[Islington Express Bus]

I obviously haven't given as much thought to this as the abacus monkeys at Metrolinx, but I can't possibly imagine that ridership would be better after cutting service to Bloor and Weston. Is there really a large contingent of airport travelers who would take a 20 minute UP Express train but who are turned off by a 24 minute trip? Especially when the alternative is a $60, 50 minute taxi ride?

 

[christiesplits]

I obviously haven't given as much thought to this as the abacus monkeys at Metrolinx, but I can't possibly imagine that ridership would be better after cutting service to Bloor and Weston. Is there really a large contingent of airport travelers who would take a 20 minute UP Express train but who are turned off by a 24 minute trip? Especially when the alternative is a $60, 50 minute taxi ride?

This is why I opposed the change. It's a super minor inconvenience for airport travellers heading to/from Union, but a big plus for local residents and airport travellers transfering on Line 2.

 

[facepalming_brooklynite]

I obviously haven't given as much thought to this as the abacus monkeys at Metrolinx, but I can't possibly imagine that ridership would be better after cutting service to Bloor and Weston. Is there really a large contingent of airport travelers who would take a 20 minute UP Express train but who are turned off by a 24 minute trip? Especially when the alternative is a $60, 50 minute taxi ride?

I would think that the motivation was actually to reduce ridership, that is, to make it less likely that rush hour trains would be overcrowded

 

[nfitz]

I would think that the motivation was actually to reduce ridership, that is, to make it less likely that rush hour trains would be overcrowded

they have the tools to increase fares only for riders that don't go to Pearson.

 

[jcam]

As a three-days-a-week downtown commuter from Weston, yes this sucks a bit, but it is not the end of the world. On the local trains going downtown, I imagine the platforms will be very full for the morning rush, and we might hit standing room only, so there will be no room for Bloor passengers to board. Have had this conversation with a few colleagues who commute on UP from Bloor and they're annoyed. In mornings, we'll have 4 trains per hour instead of 6, at times of :11, :23, :41 and :53 past the hour (23 and 53 being UP). So our largest gap between trains is up to 17 mins from 15 mins. I don't believe there are a lot of people timing TTC bus into the UP station...most commuters walk up or drive and park, so they will adjust their schedules accordingly. I'm a 10 minute walk from the station, so I'll just tweak my walk.

Coming home, I imagine the lines will be long for the local UP, and likely will hit crush capacity...there will be enough time if you can't fit to catch the next GO. With commuters focusing on those, I wonder what they'll do to balance letting airport travelers on. I'll likely just time my commute home to match the GO now, so as not to compete every time for an UP seat.

End of the day, I'll still take the trains, just have to be more strategic in which train. GO trips are longer, so we'll have to factor that in too. In the grand scheme of things, I'll still be able to get down almost as easily, and still faster than most that have to come in that distance.

That said, I did sign the petition anyway...we do have a Ford as our MPP, so it might get a response.

Lastly, makes the impending construction/opening of the Dundas West station connection slightly less useful. I hate to say it, but I may see a world where, when Kitchener is electric and has trains every 7-10 minutes, maybe UP switches to Union-Bloor-Mount Dennis-Airport, but who knows.

Well, I guess this is all moot now.

 

[dowlingm]

Just curious, would a fare increase of the UP Express, maybe even to the launch fares, have been more palatable than removing half the stops from half the trains?

I mean there are people (cheeky side-eye at one UTer who is also on Twitter) who think that UPX should be in the TTC co-fare. I guess it could be raised by the same amount as a current TTC fare and then put it in the co-fare

 

[Allandale25]

 

[nfitz]

The Monday northbound drive on 404 has deterioration since Spring started. Perhaps more returning to the work place.

 

[ARG1]

The Monday northbound drive on 404 has deterioration since Spring started. Perhaps more returning to the work place.

Its almost as if this myth of a post covid world that will signal the end of the commute was just that, a myth.

 

[turbanplanner]

Its almost as if this myth of a post covid world that will signal the end of the commute was just that, a myth.

Blame the boomer managers and REIT’s

 

[crs1026]

Blame the boomer managers and REIT’s

I'm sure if you used any other group identity (race, ethnicity, nationality, gender) in a derogatory way, the mods would be all over you.

I'm not sure why you consider it appropriate to throw shade at boomers as a group. Let's not be ageist.

(And - to your point....increasingly the boomers are now retiring, so the senior corporate people making these executive decisions are no longer consistently from that group).

We aren't finished with sorting out where work from home is productive, and where it isn't.... I'm sure the pendulum will swing back and forth on this. With measurable impact on commuting volumes.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

Its almost as if this myth of a post covid world that will signal the end of the commute was just that, a myth.

Though I'm starting to think that the constructing on Victoria Park at Lawrence is a factor in the DVP. It took 13 minutes to go 450 metres today on the 924 express bus. Google Timeline thought I'd got off the bus and wad walking!

 

[turbanplanner]

I'm sure if you used any other group identity (race, ethnicity, nationality, gender) in a derogatory way, the mods would be all over you.

I'm not sure why you consider it appropriate to throw shade at boomers as a group. Let's not be ageist.

(And - to your point....increasingly the boomers are now retiring, so the senior corporate people making these executive decisions are no longer consistently from that group).

We aren't finished with sorting out where work from home is productive, and where it isn't.... I'm sure the pendulum will swing back and forth on this. With measurable impact on commuting volumes.

- Paul

My comment was mostly tounge in cheek. I've met idiots in all age groups, I find a lot of younger people are incredibly frustrated that we had a once in a generation "tool" to make things at least a bit more balanced for younger professionals and it was taken away almost entirely due to gut feelings and fear of embarrassment. (cancelling pre-signed leases)

 

[Islington Express Bus]

Hold on a second...a few weeks ago when the UP Local/Express split was proposed it was revealed that non-stopping trains would have to slow to an absurdly slow speed when passing through Bloor and Weston's high-level platforms.

HOWEVER

I just took the UP Express yesterday and we blasted through the unopened Mount Dennis station. So obviously, that slow order had nothing to do with not scraping the platform. So what gives?